Y-DNA in South Asia

[Observer]

We have to remember that perhaps by 12000ybp L56 was likely already in Chile (https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...ogy-chile.html).
The 12600 ybp Anzick-1 sample is a L56 descendant on the 12600 old FGC47595 branch [I use Ust Ishim to Anzick-1 block of SNPs for dating SNPs].
https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-FGC47595*/
So it possible that upstream branches reached South Asia quite early too.

Any idea about this one? from recent study.

Sepúlveda et al 2022 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0271971

"Q-F4674 was previously dated 18.3 kya (16.7–19.9) [40]. One of the new Argentine samples sequenced in this study, from San Juan (RUTBE), is presented as a sub-lineage of Q-F4674 along with 2 other Sri Lankan samples from the databases (S5 Fig and S1 Table). In turn, San Juan’s sample shares Q-Z36057 with 1 of Sri Lanka’s individuals; the age of this lineage has not been yet estimated. The occurrence of Q-F4674 in the Americas has recently been found and published by our group"

Fig1 is somewhat helpful but they don't have clear estimate for this branch unlike others on their fig.

[Kaazi]

If the sample is truly P25 (P25 is below M343) with main down stream SNPs negative then most likely not steppe but likely related to bhu-0984 (R1b-PH155) or Joshi (R1b-FTB1).
I recall some P25* from Bali too.

R1b-M343
.R-L754
.R-BY14355
..R-PH155 [bhu-0984 Bhutan, Tarim, ERS5240184-Singapore]
..R-FTB1 [Joshi] https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-FTB14/story

The R-FTB1 Joshi was a user here- Marathi Deshastha Brahmin and I think bhu-0984 could be a Nepalese Bhutanese? Interesting to see some Tarkhans being added under R1b, there is a Jat as well + one NW Brahmin like kit under R1b with surname "Tirath", Rajasthani Brahmins also have it. Seems like R1b is also found in many regions though rare.

[sudodudo]

R1B is found highest in southasia currently in hindko tribe tanoli wth 82.09% of total 134 samples


more sepcifically R1b1a-M297

http://prr.hec.gov.pk/jspui/bitstrea...ain%20part.pdf

[parasar]

R1B is found highest in southasia currently in hindko tribe tanoli wth 82.09% of total 134 samples


more sepcifically R1b1a-M297

http://prr.hec.gov.pk/jspui/bitstrea...ain%20part.pdf

That should be P297.

[parasar]

Any idea about this one? from recent study.

Sepúlveda et al 2022 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0271971

"Q-F4674 was previously dated 18.3 kya (16.7–19.9) [40]. One of the new Argentine samples sequenced in this study, from San Juan (RUTBE), is presented as a sub-lineage of Q-F4674 along with 2 other Sri Lankan samples from the databases (S5 Fig and S1 Table). In turn, San Juan’s sample shares Q-Z36057 with 1 of Sri Lanka’s individuals; the age of this lineage has not been yet estimated. The occurrence of Q-F4674 in the Americas has recently been found and published by our group"

Fig1 is somewhat helpful but they don't have clear estimate for this branch unlike others on their fig.

YFull estimates Z5902 at: formed 18500 ybp, TMRCA 15900 ybp [TMRCA due to Lankan branch below]

For the Lankan Y325578, Z36057 branch, formed: 15900 ybp, TMRCA 4800 ybp [not sure how they got the the TMRCA as that would need two samples] https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-Y325578/

It is just amazing how this F4674, Z36057 line is in Argentina and Lanka!
"we verified that both San Juan’s samples have Q-F4674 and Q-Z36057"

K2b lineages have such a fascinating spread:
https://www.theytree.com/tree/K2b

[Bengali]

YFull estimates Z5902 at: formed 18500 ybp, TMRCA 15900 ybp [TMRCA due to Lankan branch below]

For the Lankan Y325578, Z36057 branch, formed: 15900 ybp, TMRCA 4800 ybp [not sure how they got the the TMRCA as that would need two samples] https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-Y325578/

It is just amazing how this F4674, Z36057 line is in Argentina and Lanka!
"we verified that both San Juan’s samples have Q-F4674 and Q-Z36057"

K2b lineages have such a fascinating spread:
https://www.theytree.com/tree/K2b

Is it really so surprising though? Q has a huge spread in North/South America...since it's origins are in Siberia, I think some members of Q crossed the Bering Strait into the Americas...I could imagine that one group of Q went to the Americas, and another group of Q spread southward throughout Eurasia.

Looks like we really loved to explore the world

[parasar]

Is it really so surprising though? Q has a huge spread in North/South America...since it's origins are in Siberia, I think some members of Q crossed the Bering Strait into the Americas...I could imagine that one group of Q went to the Americas, and another group of Q spread southward throughout Eurasia.

Looks like we really loved to explore the world

Yes that is the most likely explanation - from Siberia to Americas and from Siberia to South Asia.
But that slight affinity to the AASI-related Ongee and also Denisovan in S. America has been a puzzle.

"An increasing body of archaeological and genomic evidence has hinted at the complex settlement process that likely occurred in the Americas, which is only now beginning to become unraveled. This is especially true of the peopling of South America, where archeological sites suggest humans reached the continent soon after the first migrations out of Beringia. However, unexpected ancestral signals (e.g., Australasian) have raised perplexing scenarios for the early migrations into different regions of the South American continent. Here we present ancient genomes from northeastern Brazilian archaeologically rich region, and compare them to ancient and present-day genomes throughout the Americas. We find a distinct relationship between Meso and South American populations, including ancient individuals from northeastern Brazil, Lagoa Santa, Uruguay and Panama. We also find a strong Australasian signal in the ancient genomes near the Atlantic coast, likely originating from an unexpectedly high genomic affinity with present-day Onge. Together, these ancestral connections present genomic evidence for an ancient migration route along South America’s Atlantic coast. To further add to the complexity of peopling of the Americas, we also detect greater Denisovan ancestry in ancient Uruguay and Panama individuals, than in ancient Brazil, suggesting multiple waves of ancestral migrations along the coast. This work sheds light on the deep demographic history of eastern South America and presents a starting point for future fine-scale investigations on the regional level."
https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB48809

[Bengali]

Yes that is the most likely explanation - from Siberia to Americas and from Siberia to South Asia.
But that slight affinity to the AASI-related Ongee and also Denisovan in S. America has been a puzzle.

"An increasing body of archaeological and genomic evidence has hinted at the complex settlement process that likely occurred in the Americas, which is only now beginning to become unraveled. This is especially true of the peopling of South America, where archeological sites suggest humans reached the continent soon after the first migrations out of Beringia. However, unexpected ancestral signals (e.g., Australasian) have raised perplexing scenarios for the early migrations into different regions of the South American continent. Here we present ancient genomes from northeastern Brazilian archaeologically rich region, and compare them to ancient and present-day genomes throughout the Americas. We find a distinct relationship between Meso and South American populations, including ancient individuals from northeastern Brazil, Lagoa Santa, Uruguay and Panama. We also find a strong Australasian signal in the ancient genomes near the Atlantic coast, likely originating from an unexpectedly high genomic affinity with present-day Onge. Together, these ancestral connections present genomic evidence for an ancient migration route along South America’s Atlantic coast. To further add to the complexity of peopling of the Americas, we also detect greater Denisovan ancestry in ancient Uruguay and Panama individuals, than in ancient Brazil, suggesting multiple waves of ancestral migrations along the coast. This work sheds light on the deep demographic history of eastern South America and presents a starting point for future fine-scale investigations on the regional level."
https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB48809

Extremely interesting!

On a different note, do you have any thoughts on ColdMountains' note about Q being present in very small amounts in NW South Asia prior to to the Indo-Europeans? Do you know what clade he might have been referring to (e.g. would it have been Q-Y1150?)

[Kapisa]

That should be P297.

"The second most common haplogroup was R1b1a-M297. It occurred in the Tanolis at a very high frequency but appeared at very low frequencies in the Jadoons, Yousafzais and Syeds, while being completely absent in the Gujars."
could it be a labeling error?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s415...05076-3#MOESM2
same paper now published.

[parasar]

"The second most common haplogroup was R1b1a-M297. It occurred in the Tanolis at a very high frequency but appeared at very low frequencies in the Jadoons, Yousafzais and Syeds, while being completely absent in the Gujars."
could it be a labeling error?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s415...05076-3#MOESM2
same paper now published.

Yes - not caught in peer review either.