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Thread: Y-DNA in South Asia

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamdut View Post
    Haplogroup L is mostly in nw India and sw india but it is absent in eastern India. Its absence in eastern gangatic belt could be result of stronger Aryan domination in east India which would have prevented it to spread in those lands. Or it is possible that L is relative late comer which spread via coastal routes. L is originated around caucasus region of Grorgia and Azerbaijan and make an important haplogroup of indo-iranian groups, perhaps due to assimilation of powerful Dasa tribe Drahu among Vedic Panchjanyas.
    Possible.
    Yet only three samples from the Southern Arc paper's 700+ samples were L.

    Two from Turkey - likely both L595.
    I14734 Turkey L-L595 L
    I3225 Turkey L L
    512-389 calBCE (2360±20 BP, PSUAMS-3808)

    And one from Iran
    I4233 L-Y28524 L1a H14a 902-812 calBCE (2710±20 BP, PSUAMS-2982) IRN_Hasanlu_IA


    Also the 'Mycenaean-like' L samples from Sicily are L-L595.
    Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1 I7217 L-L595* L2
    Sicily_Himera_409BCE I17884 L-L595 L2


    Previously we had:

    From Uzbekistan (2 samples) and Swat valley(13 samples) - all L1a2
    I11462 Iran_BA1_ShahrISokhta L1a2a

    Tepe Hissar "TH16-51, 33-16-51 (CH95 X 1) (I2923): Date of 2878-2636 cal BCE (4160±25 BP, PSUAMS-1915) L-L595

    3 individuals from Late Maykop all L2(L595) - 5100 ybp and others https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_...5&ybp=500000,0

    "Armenia_ChL (Chalcolithic Armenia) All three males from this population belong to Y-chromosome haplogroup L1a-M27/P329.
    The M27 mutation is common in South Asian haplogroup L Y-chromosomes1,2, but was absent in a survey of Y-chromosomes from Anatolia3. Haplogroup L occurs at a very low ~2% frequency in present-day Armenians4. Our results indicate that it was present in Chalcolithic Armenia, but the fact that all three Chalcolithic Armenians belonged to it should not be necessarily interpreted as evidence that it was common there, as our samples are from a single location (Areni-1 cave) and may represent a local founder population."

    R11653; 403 BC-545 AD; Beniamin, Armenia; L1a2-L1307>Y6288>Y6259>Y6284>Y11220>PH3804>Y261585

    KNT005 L1a2-BY200588 “Konyr_Tobe_300CE”

    C4273 Iron Age - 2739-2152 L1a2 L1a2-Y44848 Abusanteer_IA2:C4273 Xinjiang
    Last edited by parasar; 10-04-2022 at 08:24 PM.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Possible.
    Yet only three samples from the Southern Arc paper's 700+ samples were L.

    Two from Turkey - likely both L595.
    I14734 Turkey L-L595 L
    I3225 Turkey L L
    512-389 calBCE (2360±20 BP, PSUAMS-3808)

    And one from Iran
    I4233 L-Y28524 L1a H14a 902-812 calBCE (2710±20 BP, PSUAMS-2982) IRN_Hasanlu_IA


    Also the 'Mycenaean-like' L samples from Sicily are L-L595.
    Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1 I7217 L-L595* L2
    Sicily_Himera_409BCE I17884 L-L595 L2


    Previously we had:

    From Uzbekistan (2 samples) and Swat valley(13 samples) - all L1a2
    I11462 Iran_BA1_ShahrISokhta L1a2a

    Tepe Hissar "TH16-51, 33-16-51 (CH95 X 1) (I2923): Date of 2878-2636 cal BCE (4160±25 BP, PSUAMS-1915) L-L595

    3 individuals from Late Maykop all L2(L595) - 5100 ybp and others https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_...5&ybp=500000,0

    "Armenia_ChL (Chalcolithic Armenia) All three males from this population belong to Y-chromosome haplogroup L1a-M27/P329.
    The M27 mutation is common in South Asian haplogroup L Y-chromosomes1,2, but was absent in a survey of Y-chromosomes from Anatolia3. Haplogroup L occurs at a very low ~2% frequency in present-day Armenians4. Our results indicate that it was present in Chalcolithic Armenia, but the fact that all three Chalcolithic Armenians belonged to it should not be necessarily interpreted as evidence that it was common there, as our samples are from a single location (Areni-1 cave) and may represent a local founder population."

    R11653; 403 BC-545 AD; Beniamin, Armenia; L1a2-L1307>Y6288>Y6259>Y6284>Y11220>PH3804>Y261585

    KNT005 L1a2-BY200588 “Konyr_Tobe_300CE”

    C4273 Iron Age - 2739-2152 L1a2 L1a2-Y44848 Abusanteer_IA2:C4273 Xinjiang
    also this one from Jeitun farmers of Turkmenistan
    NEO310:Monjukli-Depe: Turkmenistan: H14: L1a: 6,550 BP: This study

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bengali View Post
    Why does my dad get so much BMAC ancestry then? He gets the highest BMAC ancestry amongst any Bengali sample (even including the Brahmin samples from West Bengal). My family is Muslim, not Brahmin/Kayastha (although not sure what our past origins may have been!). There are also a number of other Bengali samples that get BMAC ancestry...do you know where it could come from, and why some in Bengal/East India have it but others don't? I thought Brahmin/Kayastha was associated with increased steppe ancestry rather than BMAC. Would the Q haplogroup be associated with BMAC?:

    Sample Fit Indus Valley Civilization Steppe East Asian sahg West Asian west siberian hunter gatherer Bronze Age central asia
    ABBU (Bengali) 2.55 41 7.2 5.2 37.8 0 1.6 7.2
    HG03611 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.17 49 7.4 10 26.8 0 0 6.8
    HG03809 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.78 39.4 11.2 7 36 0 0 6.4
    BR2 3 (Brahmin West Bengal) 1.40 71.2 21.2 1.6 0 0 0 6
    BR2 7 (Brahmin West Bengal) 1.56 62.2 17.8 0 11.2 0 3 5.8
    HG04158 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.47 47.8 10 10.4 26 0 0 5.8
    HG03814 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.27 44.4 9.6 11.4 29.4 0 0 5.2
    HG03824 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.92 42.2 8.6 11 33.6 0 0 4.6
    HG03913 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.27 55.2 8.8 10 21.6 0 0 4.4
    HG03603 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.12 40 9.4 7.8 38.4 0 0 4.4
    BR2 19 (Brahmin West Bengal) 1.18 71 21.8 3.4 0 0 0 3.8
    BR2 15 (Brahmin West Bengal) 1.51 71.8 21 1.6 0 0 2.4 3.2
    BR2 10 (Brahmin West Bengal) 1.80 71.2 19.2 3 0 3.8 0 2.8
    BR2 12 (Brahmin West Bengal) 2.04 72 25.6 0 0 0 0 2.4
    BR2 6 (Brahmin West Bengal) 0.93 68.4 23.6 2.4 0 3.2 0 2.4
    BR2 2 (Brahmin West Bengal) 1.44 72.4 23.4 2.8 0 0 0 1.4
    Median (Brahmin West Bengal) 1.03 73.6 23.8 2.6 0 0 0 0
    Average (Brahmin West Bengal) 1.00 73.6 23 3.4 0 0 0 0
    BR2 16 (Brahmin West Bengal) 1.70 73.2 19.8 2.6 0 4.4 0 0
    BR2 11 (Brahmin West Bengal) 1.21 71.2 25.8 3 0 0 0 0
    HG04131 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.38 69.6 8.4 13 9 0 0 0
    HG04152 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.10 67.8 7.8 10.6 13.8 0 0 0
    BR2 4 (Brahmin West Bengal) 1.72 67.6 21.8 1.8 8.8 0 0 0
    HG03907 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.50 62.8 8.8 10.4 18 0 0 0
    BR2 1 (Brahmin West Bengal) 1.86 61.8 22.4 0 12.8 0 3 0
    HG03920 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.62 61 9.2 6.4 23.4 0 0 0
    HG03594 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.31 60.6 10.2 9.6 18.4 1.2 0 0
    HG03908 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.76 60.4 12 6.8 20.8 0 0 0
    HG03615 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.22 60 11.4 10.2 18.4 0 0 0
    HG03607 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.76 59.8 10.8 11.2 18.2 0 0 0
    AMU (Bengali) 1.91 59.2 6.6 7.8 24.6 1.8 0 0
    HG03902 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.31 58.6 9.6 9.2 20.2 2.4 0 0
    HG03812 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.58 58.6 11 9.6 19 1.8 0 0
    HG04182 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.17 58.4 8 10.8 22.8 0 0 0
    HG03934 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.76 58.2 5.8 10.4 20.6 3.4 1.6 0
    HG03817 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.90 57.4 12.6 10.2 19.8 0 0 0
    HG03593 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.35 57.4 12.6 9.2 20.8 0 0 0
    HG04177 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.45 57 11.4 11.2 20.4 0 0 0
    HG03925 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.11 56.8 11 8.6 23.6 0 0 0
    HG03604 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.19 56.8 12.4 9.4 21.4 0 0 0
    HG04134 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.96 56.2 13.2 10.8 19.8 0 0 0
    HG03916 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.92 56.2 8.4 10.6 24.8 0 0 0
    Bengali Avg from Reza (Bengali) 1.40 55.8 10.8 9.4 24 0 0 0
    HG03928 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.08 55.6 11.6 9 23.8 0 0 0
    Average (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.39 55.6 11 9.4 24 0 0 0
    Median (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.39 55.4 11.4 9.8 23.4 0 0 0
    HG03803 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.11 55.4 12.2 9.4 23 0 0 0
    ME (Bengali) 2.87 55 10 7.2 27.8 0 0 0
    HG03905 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.47 54.8 11.8 11.6 21.8 0 0 0
    HG03802 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.69 54.4 11.6 6.8 27.2 0 0 0
    HG04159 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.85 53.8 13.8 9 23.4 0 0 0
    HG03911 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.19 53.8 14.4 6.4 25.2 0 0.2 0
    HG03821 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.55 53.8 10.2 7.6 26.6 1.8 0 0
    HG03910 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.50 53.4 9.6 11.8 22.6 2.6 0 0
    HG04188 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.48 53.2 11 11.8 24 0 0 0
    HG03833 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.99 53 10.2 9.6 25.4 1.8 0 0
    HG04156 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.09 52 14.6 9.8 23.6 0 0 0
    HG03823 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.33 52 11.8 8.2 27 0 1 0
    HG04176 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.19 51.8 11.8 9.4 27 0 0 0
    HG03914 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.42 51.6 11.6 10 26.8 0 0 0
    HG04155 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.72 51 10.6 11.8 25.4 1.2 0 0
    HG04141 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.96 50.8 10.2 11 26.6 1.4 0 0
    HG03917 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.08 50.8 12.2 9.6 27.4 0 0 0
    HG04189 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.88 50.6 10.4 8 31 0 0 0
    HG04164 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.76 50.2 13 9.4 27.4 0 0 0
    HG03589 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.34 50.2 11.4 6.8 31.6 0 0 0
    HG03826 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.34 49.2 11.6 8.8 27.2 3.2 0 0
    HG03808 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.31 49 12.2 12 26.8 0 0 0
    HG03829 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.47 48.4 7.6 10.8 30 3.2 0 0
    HG03585 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.49 48.4 8.4 11 27.6 3.6 1 0
    HG03830 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.70 47.4 10.4 12.6 29.6 0 0 0
    HG04173 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.91 47.2 13 8 31.8 0 0 0
    HG03805 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.38 47.2 9.8 8 31.8 1.6 1.6 0
    HG03598 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.81 46.8 10.4 10.4 27.4 3.6 1.4 0
    HG04153 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.23 46 10.8 9.6 31.8 1.8 0 0
    HG04195 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.15 43.8 8.4 10.2 31.4 3.4 2.8 0
    HG03937 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.50 43.4 10.8 8.8 37 0 0 0
    HG03595 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.29 43 14 10.4 32.6 0 0 0
    HG03922 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.29 40.8 11.8 9.6 36.4 0 1.4 0
    HG03815 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.57 39.6 13.2 10.8 36.4 0 0 0
    I tried to extract BMAC ancestry using a simple model that works best for Bengalis, and aside from couple who scored 1-2%, it is non existent for avergae Bangladeshis. If it is there, should be less than 5% max.

    Sample Fit Telugu GBR Burmese Dzharkutan1 BA
    HG03920 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.28 92.5 7.5 0
    HG03802 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.90 91.5 8.5 0
    BengaliDad (Duffydemon) 1.66 91 9 0
    HG03908 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.26 91 9 0
    Bengali User (Duffydemon) 1.81 90.5 9.5 0
    HG03911 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.80 90.5 9.5 0
    HG04189 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.59 90 10 0
    HG03925 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.40 90 10 0
    HG03821 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.45 90 10 0
    HG03823 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.88 89.5 10.5 0
    HG03803 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.52 89 11 0
    HG03589 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.91 88.5 11.5 0
    HG04173 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.49 88 12 0
    HG04159 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.17 88 12 0
    HG03902 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.36 88 12 0
    HG03604 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.90 88 12 0
    HG03603 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.31 88 12 0
    BengaliMom (Duffydemon) 1.15 87.5 12.5 0
    HG04176 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.50 87.5 12.5 0
    HG03826 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.90 87.5 12.5 0
    HG03809 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.10 87.5 12.5 0
    HG03594 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.58 87.5 12.5 0
    HG03593 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.75 87.5 12.5 0
    HG04164 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.61 87 13 0
    HG03914 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.96 87 13 0
    HG03913 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.00 87 13 0
    HG03805 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.99 87 13 0
    HG03615 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.13 87 13 0
    HG03607 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.11 87 13 0
    HG04177 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.93 86.5 13.5 0
    HG04156 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.74 86.5 13.5 0
    HG04153 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.66 86.5 13.5 0
    HG04134 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.46 86.5 13.5 0
    HG03922 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.62 86.5 13.5 0
    HG03907 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.63 86.5 13.5 0
    HG04183 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.40 86 14 0
    HG03905 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.48 86 14 0
    HG03833 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.12 86 14 0
    HG03829 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.78 86 14 0
    HG03817 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.99 86 14 0
    HG03812 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.92 86 14 0
    HG03917 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.60 85.5 14.5 0
    HG03910 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.50 85.5 14.5 0
    HG04188 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.44 85 15 0
    HG04155 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.06 85 15 0
    HG03934 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.32 85 15 0
    HG03916 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.04 85 15 0
    HG03824 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.21 85 15 0
    HG03814 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.29 85 15 0
    HG03595 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.82 85 15 0
    HG04182 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.41 84.5 15.5 0
    HG04158 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.57 84.5 14 1.5
    HG03830 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.11 84.5 15.5 0
    HG03598 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.99 84.5 15.5 0
    HG04195 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.49 84 16 0
    HG03815 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.90 84 16 0
    HG03611 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.33 84 14 2
    HG03585 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.85 84 16 0
    HG04141 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.04 82.5 17.5 0
    HG03808 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.58 82 18 0
    HG04131 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.39 79.5 18.5 2

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    I tried to extract BMAC ancestry using a simple model that works best for Bengalis, and aside from couple who scored 1-2%, it is non existent for avergae Bangladeshis. If it is there, should be less than 5% max.

    Sample Fit Telugu GBR Burmese Dzharkutan1 BA
    HG03920 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.28 92.5 7.5 0
    HG03802 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.90 91.5 8.5 0
    BengaliDad (Duffydemon) 1.66 91 9 0
    HG03908 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.26 91 9 0
    Bengali User (Duffydemon) 1.81 90.5 9.5 0
    HG03911 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.80 90.5 9.5 0
    HG04189 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.59 90 10 0
    HG03925 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.40 90 10 0
    HG03821 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.45 90 10 0
    HG03823 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.88 89.5 10.5 0
    HG03803 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.52 89 11 0
    HG03589 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.91 88.5 11.5 0
    HG04173 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.49 88 12 0
    HG04159 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.17 88 12 0
    HG03902 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.36 88 12 0
    HG03604 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.90 88 12 0
    HG03603 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.31 88 12 0
    BengaliMom (Duffydemon) 1.15 87.5 12.5 0
    HG04176 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.50 87.5 12.5 0
    HG03826 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.90 87.5 12.5 0
    HG03809 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.10 87.5 12.5 0
    HG03594 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.58 87.5 12.5 0
    HG03593 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.75 87.5 12.5 0
    HG04164 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.61 87 13 0
    HG03914 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.96 87 13 0
    HG03913 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.00 87 13 0
    HG03805 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.99 87 13 0
    HG03615 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.13 87 13 0
    HG03607 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.11 87 13 0
    HG04177 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.93 86.5 13.5 0
    HG04156 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.74 86.5 13.5 0
    HG04153 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.66 86.5 13.5 0
    HG04134 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.46 86.5 13.5 0
    HG03922 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.62 86.5 13.5 0
    HG03907 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.63 86.5 13.5 0
    HG04183 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.40 86 14 0
    HG03905 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.48 86 14 0
    HG03833 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.12 86 14 0
    HG03829 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.78 86 14 0
    HG03817 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.99 86 14 0
    HG03812 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.92 86 14 0
    HG03917 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.60 85.5 14.5 0
    HG03910 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.50 85.5 14.5 0
    HG04188 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.44 85 15 0
    HG04155 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.06 85 15 0
    HG03934 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.32 85 15 0
    HG03916 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.04 85 15 0
    HG03824 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.21 85 15 0
    HG03814 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.29 85 15 0
    HG03595 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.82 85 15 0
    HG04182 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.41 84.5 15.5 0
    HG04158 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.57 84.5 14 1.5
    HG03830 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.11 84.5 15.5 0
    HG03598 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.99 84.5 15.5 0
    HG04195 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.49 84 16 0
    HG03815 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.90 84 16 0
    HG03611 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.33 84 14 2
    HG03585 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.85 84 16 0
    HG04141 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.04 82.5 17.5 0
    HG03808 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.58 82 18 0
    HG04131 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.39 79.5 18.5 2
    Using same model, but with Sintashta to capture additional steppe ancestry, it it extracts the BMAC in Punjabis:

    Sample Fit Telugu GBR Dzharkutan1 BA Sintashta MLBA Burmese
    Punjabi Nai 1.76 65 20.5 14.5 0
    Punjabi Tarkhan AVG 0.53 58.5 20.5 20.5 0.5
    Average (Punjabi Hindu India) 0.44 58 21.5 19.5 1
    Average (Punjabi Muslim India) 0.99 55.5 25 17 2.5
    Average (Punjabi Sikh India) 0.50 53 25 21.5 0.5
    Average (Punjabi Jatt) 1.00 51 23.5 25.5 0

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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapisa View Post
    also this one from Jeitun farmers of Turkmenistan
    NEO310:Monjukli-Depe: Turkmenistan: H14: L1a: 6,550 BP: This study
    Yes, thanks.
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...?download=true
    L1a L1a2 H14

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    I tried to extract BMAC ancestry using a simple model that works best for Bengalis, and aside from couple who scored 1-2%, it is non existent for avergae Bangladeshis. If it is there, should be less than 5% max.

    Sample Fit Telugu GBR Burmese Dzharkutan1 BA
    HG03920 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.28 92.5 7.5 0
    HG03802 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.90 91.5 8.5 0
    BengaliDad (Duffydemon) 1.66 91 9 0
    HG03908 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.26 91 9 0
    Bengali User (Duffydemon) 1.81 90.5 9.5 0
    HG03911 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.80 90.5 9.5 0
    HG04189 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.59 90 10 0
    HG03925 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.40 90 10 0
    HG03821 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.45 90 10 0
    HG03823 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.88 89.5 10.5 0
    HG03803 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.52 89 11 0
    HG03589 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.91 88.5 11.5 0
    HG04173 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.49 88 12 0
    HG04159 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.17 88 12 0
    HG03902 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.36 88 12 0
    HG03604 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.90 88 12 0
    HG03603 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.31 88 12 0
    BengaliMom (Duffydemon) 1.15 87.5 12.5 0
    HG04176 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.50 87.5 12.5 0
    HG03826 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.90 87.5 12.5 0
    HG03809 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.10 87.5 12.5 0
    HG03594 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.58 87.5 12.5 0
    HG03593 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.75 87.5 12.5 0
    HG04164 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.61 87 13 0
    HG03914 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.96 87 13 0
    HG03913 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.00 87 13 0
    HG03805 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.99 87 13 0
    HG03615 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.13 87 13 0
    HG03607 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.11 87 13 0
    HG04177 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.93 86.5 13.5 0
    HG04156 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.74 86.5 13.5 0
    HG04153 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.66 86.5 13.5 0
    HG04134 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.46 86.5 13.5 0
    HG03922 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.62 86.5 13.5 0
    HG03907 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.63 86.5 13.5 0
    HG04183 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.40 86 14 0
    HG03905 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.48 86 14 0
    HG03833 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.12 86 14 0
    HG03829 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.78 86 14 0
    HG03817 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.99 86 14 0
    HG03812 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.92 86 14 0
    HG03917 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.60 85.5 14.5 0
    HG03910 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.50 85.5 14.5 0
    HG04188 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.44 85 15 0
    HG04155 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.06 85 15 0
    HG03934 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.32 85 15 0
    HG03916 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.04 85 15 0
    HG03824 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.21 85 15 0
    HG03814 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.29 85 15 0
    HG03595 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.82 85 15 0
    HG04182 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.41 84.5 15.5 0
    HG04158 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.57 84.5 14 1.5
    HG03830 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.11 84.5 15.5 0
    HG03598 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.99 84.5 15.5 0
    HG04195 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.49 84 16 0
    HG03815 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.90 84 16 0
    HG03611 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.33 84 14 2
    HG03585 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.85 84 16 0
    HG04141 (Bengali Bangladesh) 2.04 82.5 17.5 0
    HG03808 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.58 82 18 0
    HG04131 (Bengali Bangladesh) 1.39 79.5 18.5 2
    Thanks this model makes more sense to me. What would that Bronze Age Central Asia refer to then in the steppe ancestry model? I think your model gives much better fits and is more reliable! Out of curiosity where's the steppe ancestry in this model? Is it baked into the Telugu GBR? It looks like South Indian + East Asian + BMAC. One thing I've noticed is different models give different results, how do you determine which one is correct? Can we just look at model fits and if the model fit is better than it's more trustworthy?
    Last edited by Bengali; 10-04-2022 at 09:21 PM.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Bengali For This Useful Post:

     Reza (10-04-2022)

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Possible.
    Yet only three samples from the Southern Arc paper's 700+ samples were L.

    Two from Turkey - likely both L595.
    I14734 Turkey L-L595 L
    I3225 Turkey L L
    512-389 calBCE (2360±20 BP, PSUAMS-3808)

    And one from Iran
    I4233 L-Y28524 L1a H14a 902-812 calBCE (2710±20 BP, PSUAMS-2982) IRN_Hasanlu_IA


    Also the 'Mycenaean-like' L samples from Sicily are L-L595.
    Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1 I7217 L-L595* L2
    Sicily_Himera_409BCE I17884 L-L595 L2


    Previously we had:

    From Uzbekistan (2 samples) and Swat valley(13 samples) - all L1a2
    I11462 Iran_BA1_ShahrISokhta L1a2a

    Tepe Hissar "TH16-51, 33-16-51 (CH95 X 1) (I2923): Date of 2878-2636 cal BCE (4160±25 BP, PSUAMS-1915) L-L595

    3 individuals from Late Maykop all L2(L595) - 5100 ybp and others https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_...5&ybp=500000,0

    "Armenia_ChL (Chalcolithic Armenia) All three males from this population belong to Y-chromosome haplogroup L1a-M27/P329.
    The M27 mutation is common in South Asian haplogroup L Y-chromosomes1,2, but was absent in a survey of Y-chromosomes from Anatolia3. Haplogroup L occurs at a very low ~2% frequency in present-day Armenians4. Our results indicate that it was present in Chalcolithic Armenia, but the fact that all three Chalcolithic Armenians belonged to it should not be necessarily interpreted as evidence that it was common there, as our samples are from a single location (Areni-1 cave) and may represent a local founder population."

    R11653; 403 BC-545 AD; Beniamin, Armenia; L1a2-L1307>Y6288>Y6259>Y6284>Y11220>PH3804>Y261585

    KNT005 L1a2-BY200588 “Konyr_Tobe_300CE”

    C4273 Iron Age - 2739-2152 L1a2 L1a2-Y44848 Abusanteer_IA2:C4273 Xinjiang
    I recall from the Kerala Y DNA thread that syriac christians were getting L haplogroup a lot if that's at all helpful?

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Bengali For This Useful Post:

     parasar (10-12-2022)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bengali View Post
    Thanks this model makes more sense to me. What would that Bronze Age Central Asia refer to then in the steppe ancestry model? I think your model gives much better fits and is more reliable! Out of curiosity where's the steppe ancestry in this model? Is it baked into the Telugu GBR? It looks like South Indian + East Asian + BMAC. One thing I've noticed is different models give different results, how do you determine which one is correct? Can we just look at model fits and if the model fit is better than it's more trustworthy?
    Using Kaazi's model:

    Sample: Telugu GBR ► Average
    Fit: 2.49
    Results: IRN Shahr I Sokhta BA3 93
    RUS Srubnaya Alakul MLBA 4.2
    NPL Chokhopani 2700BP 2.8


    It has minor steppe and minor east asian

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to MonkeyDLuffy For This Useful Post:

     Bengali (10-04-2022)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    Using Kaazi's model:

    Sample: Telugu GBR ► Average
    Fit: 2.49
    Results: IRN Shahr I Sokhta BA3 93
    RUS Srubnaya Alakul MLBA 4.2
    NPL Chokhopani 2700BP 2.8


    It has minor steppe and minor east asian
    :-) I am learning!

    So what do you think that other calculator was picking up for "Bronze Age Central Asia". Maybe it could just be additional steppe ancestry, but for some reason, they categorized it as BMAC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    Shia Syeds, mostly Uttar Pradesh origin

    J-M267 (12/56 = 21.43%)

    J-M267 (Big-Y Interesting)
    1. J-M267 J-M267, H2; Maternal 5th cousin
    2. J-M267, null; Rizvi from Jaunpur. Friend of anthrogenica user Ahmed Ali
    3. J-M267, R30b; Anthrogenica user asadzaidi cousin, Zaidi, related to my maternal grandfather

    J-CTS5368 (Big-Y Interesting)
    4. J-CTS5368, M3a1; Paternal 4th cousin
    5. J-CTS5368, M30; Paternal 3rd cousin, Naqvi
    6. J-CTS5368, W; Relative of anthrogenica user Pakistani, Bilgrami
    7. J-CTS5368, M5a; Paternal 4th cousin

    J-P58 (Medina -> Tous (Iran) -> North India, Big-Y Interesting)
    8. J-P58, M30; Rizvi

    J-FGC10500, J-FGC30416, J-FGC61618 (Medina -> Mashhad -> Agra)
    9. J-FT61618, U7; Anthrogenica user rizvim.
    10. J-FT61618, null; Anthrogenica user hussain.r97

    J-FGC10500, J-FGC30416, J-FGC54257, J-YFS4252908, J-FT404533
    11. J-FT405468, T1a; Anthrogenica user asadzaidi, Zaidi, Abu Farah Wasiti/ Wasit, Iraq > Khairthal, N.India. Maternal 5th cousin
    12. J-MF187340, null; Taqvi lineage. Medina -> Qom -> North India

    J-M172, J-M410 J2a (7/56 = 12.5%)

    J-M410, J-L26
    1. J-L26, U2; Rizvi/Zaidi

    J-PF5197, J-PF5172, J-PF5169, J-PF5174, J-S19231, J-S25338, J-Z6083, J-Z6082, J-FT126996
    2. J-FT126996, M3d1a; Me, Taqvi Lineage
    3. J-FT126996, M3d1a; My Brother

    J-M410, J-L26, J-PF5125, J-Z2227, J-Z6065, J-Y7708, J-Y7702, J-M47 (Big-Y Interesting)
    4. J-M47, M2b1; Maternal 4th cousin, Jaffery
    5. J-M47, M5a; Jaffery
    6. J-M47, R30a; Jaffery

    J-M410, J-L26, J-PF5088, J-PF5125, J-Z1846, J-M67 (Big-Y Interesting)
    7. J-M67, N5

    J-M172, J-M102, J2b (2/56 = 3.57%)

    J-M102, J-Z534, J-Z1825, J-Z593
    1. J-M241, R6a1; Naqvi
    2. J-M241, M35b; Naqvi

    G (1/56 = 1.79%)
    G-P287, G-Y238, G-P15, G-L1259, G-L30, G-CTS574, G-CTS2488, G-P303, G-BY28175 (Big-Y Interesting)
    1. G-Z30503, null; Rizvi from Jaunpur, UP

    E (4/56 = 7.14%)

    E-M35, E-V68, E-M78 (Big-Y Interesting)
    1. E-M78, M30d1

    E-M35, E-Z827, E-CTS10298, E-PF1962, E-M123, E-M34 (Big-Y Interesting)
    2. E-M34, M33a; Gardezi Sadaat, Naqvi

    E-M35, E-V68, E-M78, E-PF2179, E-Z1902, E-V12 (Big-Y Interesting)
    3. E-V12, M5c; Maternal 3rd/4th cousin
    4. E-Z1902, U4a; Maternal 3rd/4th cousin

    R1a (12/56 = 21.43%)

    R-M417
    1. R-M417, I5; 4th/5th cousin, Bilgram Sadaat
    2. R-M417, R31a1; Zaidi
    3. R-M417, M35b; Jaffery

    R-M417, R-PF6162, R-Z93
    4. R-Z93, U7; Rizvi
    5. R-Z93, M4a; Zaidi, Father-in-law of anthrogenica user alirajani

    R-M417, R-PF6162, R-Z93, R-Z94, R-FT197453, R-F2597, R-AM00479, R-M634, R-L657, R-Z29117, R-Y6
    6. R-Y6, M38a; 2nd/3rd cousin
    7. R-Y6, M5a2a1; Anthrogenica user Raza94, Gilani from Punjab
    8. R-Y6, null; Raza94 Cousin, Gilani from Punjab
    9. R-Y6, null; Raza94 Uncle, Gilani from Punjab,
    10. R-Y6, U5a1

    R-M417, R-PF6162, R-Z93, R-Z94, R-FT197453, R-F2597, R-AM00479, R-M634, R-L657, R-Y9, R-Y7
    11. R-Y7, U2b2; Jaffri,
    12. R-Y7, M5d; Jaffri

    R1b (4/56 = 7.14%)

    R-M173, R-M343, R-L754, R-L389, R-P297, R-M269, R-L23, R-Z2103, R-M12149, R-Z2106, R-Z2109
    1. R-CTS1843, H5'36; Maternal 5th cousin
    2. R-CTS1843, M30c; Zaidi

    R-M173, R-M343, R-L754, R-L389, R-P297, R-M269, R-L23
    3. R-L23, M3a1; Maternal 4th cousin
    4. R-L23, M4'46

    R2 (1/56 = 1.79%)

    R-M207, R-M479
    1. R-L266, M3d1a; Maternal 2nd cousin.

    I (2/56 = 3.57%)

    I-M223, I-P222, I-CTS616, I-CTS10057, I-L702, I-S22311, I-L703, I-S12195, I-S21579, I-S10768
    1. I-S10768, M18; Amroha Sadaat, Naqvi from Wasit, Predicted by subzero85 origin as Iran/Turkey
    2. I-M233, R6; Amroha Sadaat, Naqvi from Wasit

    T (3/56 = 5.36%)


    T-M184, T-M70, T-Z19859, T-L208, T-CTS11451, T-CTS2214, T-Z709
    1. T-Z709, M3d1a; 2nd cousin, claim a Mousavi/Kazimi line
    2. T-Z709, M3d1a; 2nd cousin, claim a Mousavi/Kazimi line
    3. T-Z709, H2a2b; 3rd cousin maternal side

    C (1/56 = 1.79%)

    C-F3393, C-F137, C-K281, C-Y28069, C-K98, C-P92, C-K108, C-Z5895
    1. C-K96, X2b1; 2nd/3rd cousin

    H (3/56 = 5.36%)


    H-L901, H-M2826, H-L902, H-M69, H-PH830, H-Z14258
    1. H-Z14258, M45; Maternal 3rd/4th cousin
    2. H-Z14258, M45; Maternal 3rd/4th cousin

    H-L901, H-M2826, H-L902, H-M69, H-M52, H-M82, H-M2745, H-M2772, H-SK1225, H-M2867, H-M3038, H-Z5881, H-Z5882
    3. H-Z5882, M2b1; Maternal 5th cousin

    L (2/56 = 3.57%)

    L-M20, L-M22, L-M2357, L-M2533, L-M357
    1. L-M27, R5a2

    L-M20, L-M22, L-M2357, L-M2533, L-M357, L-M2398, L-M2550, L-M2509, L-M2385, L-Y62624
    2. L-Y62624, null; Abidi, match of anthrogenica user Raza94.
    Q (1/56 = 1.79%)
    Q-M242, Q-L275
    1. Q-L275, K1a4; Paternal 4th cousin, Rizvi,

    O-F8 (1/56 = 1.79)
    O-M175, O-M122, O-F36, O-M324, O-P201, O-P164, O-M134, O-F450, O-M117, O-M133
    1. O-F8, T; Rizvi
    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...out/background <- It would be interesting to compare how many of the J-M267 samples here match these haplogroups. I came across this and it looked like FTDNA had a group dedicated to it...
    Last edited by Bengali; 10-04-2022 at 09:49 PM.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Bengali For This Useful Post:

     subzero85 (10-05-2022)

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