Y-DNA in South Asia

[Reza]

I tried to extract BMAC ancestry using a simple model that works best for Bengalis, and aside from couple who scored 1-2%, it is non existent for avergae Bangladeshis. If it is there, should be less than 5% max.

Sample	Fit	Telugu GBR	Burmese	Dzharkutan1 BA
HG03920 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.28	92.5	7.5	0
HG03802 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.90	91.5	8.5	0
BengaliDad (Duffydemon)	1.66	91	9	0
HG03908 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.26	91	9	0
Bengali User (Duffydemon)	1.81	90.5	9.5	0
HG03911 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.80	90.5	9.5	0
HG04189 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.59	90	10	0
HG03925 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.40	90	10	0
HG03821 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.45	90	10	0
HG03823 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.88	89.5	10.5	0
HG03803 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.52	89	11	0
HG03589 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.91	88.5	11.5	0
HG04173 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.49	88	12	0
HG04159 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.17	88	12	0
HG03902 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.36	88	12	0
HG03604 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.90	88	12	0
HG03603 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.31	88	12	0
BengaliMom (Duffydemon)	1.15	87.5	12.5	0
HG04176 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.50	87.5	12.5	0
HG03826 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.90	87.5	12.5	0
HG03809 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.10	87.5	12.5	0
HG03594 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.58	87.5	12.5	0
HG03593 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.75	87.5	12.5	0
HG04164 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.61	87	13	0
HG03914 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.96	87	13	0
HG03913 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.00	87	13	0
HG03805 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.99	87	13	0
HG03615 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.13	87	13	0
HG03607 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.11	87	13	0
HG04177 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.93	86.5	13.5	0
HG04156 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.74	86.5	13.5	0
HG04153 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.66	86.5	13.5	0
HG04134 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.46	86.5	13.5	0
HG03922 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.62	86.5	13.5	0
HG03907 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.63	86.5	13.5	0
HG04183 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.40	86	14	0
HG03905 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.48	86	14	0
HG03833 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.12	86	14	0
HG03829 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.78	86	14	0
HG03817 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.99	86	14	0
HG03812 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.92	86	14	0
HG03917 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.60	85.5	14.5	0
HG03910 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.50	85.5	14.5	0
HG04188 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.44	85	15	0
HG04155 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.06	85	15	0
HG03934 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.32	85	15	0
HG03916 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.04	85	15	0
HG03824 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.21	85	15	0
HG03814 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.29	85	15	0
HG03595 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.82	85	15	0
HG04182 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.41	84.5	15.5	0
HG04158 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.57	84.5	14	1.5
HG03830 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.11	84.5	15.5	0
HG03598 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.99	84.5	15.5	0
HG04195 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.49	84	16	0
HG03815 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.90	84	16	0
HG03611 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.33	84	14	2
HG03585 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.85	84	16	0
HG04141 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.04	82.5	17.5	0
HG03808 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.58	82	18	0
HG04131 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.39	79.5	18.5	2

Bengali,

Just to reiterate MDL's point, there is not much BMAC ancestry for most / any Bengalis.

With the simple model that he posted above, I have the following results:



Once you account for excess steppe to what Telegu average has, you can see that any BMAC effectively disappears apart from some individuals with this:



The fits aren't brilliant for my family / region (I don't think Burmese is always a good proxy for the TB/EA in us) but it paints the picture. For the ethnogenesis of Bangladeshis, BMAC wasn't significant.

[pegasus]

Why does my dad get so much BMAC ancestry then? He gets the highest BMAC ancestry amongst any Bengali sample (even including the Brahmin samples from West Bengal). My family is Muslim, not Brahmin/Kayastha (although not sure what our past origins may have been!). There are also a number of other Bengali samples that get BMAC ancestry...do you know where it could come from, and why some in Bengal/East India have it but others don't? I thought Brahmin/Kayastha was associated with increased steppe ancestry rather than BMAC. Would the Q haplogroup be associated with BMAC?:

Sample	Fit	Indus Valley Civilization	Steppe	East Asian	sahg	West Asian	west siberian hunter gatherer	Bronze Age central asia
ABBU (Bengali)	2.55	41	7.2	5.2	37.8	0	1.6	7.2
HG03611 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.17	49	7.4	10	26.8	0	0	6.8
HG03809 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.78	39.4	11.2	7	36	0	0	6.4
BR2 3 (Brahmin West Bengal)	1.40	71.2	21.2	1.6	0	0	0	6
BR2 7 (Brahmin West Bengal)	1.56	62.2	17.8	0	11.2	0	3	5.8
HG04158 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.47	47.8	10	10.4	26	0	0	5.8
HG03814 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.27	44.4	9.6	11.4	29.4	0	0	5.2
HG03824 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.92	42.2	8.6	11	33.6	0	0	4.6
HG03913 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.27	55.2	8.8	10	21.6	0	0	4.4
HG03603 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.12	40	9.4	7.8	38.4	0	0	4.4
BR2 19 (Brahmin West Bengal)	1.18	71	21.8	3.4	0	0	0	3.8
BR2 15 (Brahmin West Bengal)	1.51	71.8	21	1.6	0	0	2.4	3.2
BR2 10 (Brahmin West Bengal)	1.80	71.2	19.2	3	0	3.8	0	2.8
BR2 12 (Brahmin West Bengal)	2.04	72	25.6	0	0	0	0	2.4
BR2 6 (Brahmin West Bengal)	0.93	68.4	23.6	2.4	0	3.2	0	2.4
BR2 2 (Brahmin West Bengal)	1.44	72.4	23.4	2.8	0	0	0	1.4
Median (Brahmin West Bengal)	1.03	73.6	23.8	2.6	0	0	0	0
Average (Brahmin West Bengal)	1.00	73.6	23	3.4	0	0	0	0
BR2 16 (Brahmin West Bengal)	1.70	73.2	19.8	2.6	0	4.4	0	0
BR2 11 (Brahmin West Bengal)	1.21	71.2	25.8	3	0	0	0	0
HG04131 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.38	69.6	8.4	13	9	0	0	0
HG04152 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.10	67.8	7.8	10.6	13.8	0	0	0
BR2 4 (Brahmin West Bengal)	1.72	67.6	21.8	1.8	8.8	0	0	0
HG03907 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.50	62.8	8.8	10.4	18	0	0	0
BR2 1 (Brahmin West Bengal)	1.86	61.8	22.4	0	12.8	0	3	0
HG03920 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.62	61	9.2	6.4	23.4	0	0	0
HG03594 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.31	60.6	10.2	9.6	18.4	1.2	0	0
HG03908 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.76	60.4	12	6.8	20.8	0	0	0
HG03615 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.22	60	11.4	10.2	18.4	0	0	0
HG03607 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.76	59.8	10.8	11.2	18.2	0	0	0
AMU (Bengali)	1.91	59.2	6.6	7.8	24.6	1.8	0	0
HG03902 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.31	58.6	9.6	9.2	20.2	2.4	0	0
HG03812 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.58	58.6	11	9.6	19	1.8	0	0
HG04182 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.17	58.4	8	10.8	22.8	0	0	0
HG03934 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.76	58.2	5.8	10.4	20.6	3.4	1.6	0
HG03817 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.90	57.4	12.6	10.2	19.8	0	0	0
HG03593 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.35	57.4	12.6	9.2	20.8	0	0	0
HG04177 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.45	57	11.4	11.2	20.4	0	0	0
HG03925 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.11	56.8	11	8.6	23.6	0	0	0
HG03604 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.19	56.8	12.4	9.4	21.4	0	0	0
HG04134 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.96	56.2	13.2	10.8	19.8	0	0	0
HG03916 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.92	56.2	8.4	10.6	24.8	0	0	0
Bengali Avg from Reza (Bengali)	1.40	55.8	10.8	9.4	24	0	0	0
HG03928 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.08	55.6	11.6	9	23.8	0	0	0
Average (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.39	55.6	11	9.4	24	0	0	0
Median (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.39	55.4	11.4	9.8	23.4	0	0	0
HG03803 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.11	55.4	12.2	9.4	23	0	0	0
ME (Bengali)	2.87	55	10	7.2	27.8	0	0	0
HG03905 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.47	54.8	11.8	11.6	21.8	0	0	0
HG03802 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.69	54.4	11.6	6.8	27.2	0	0	0
HG04159 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.85	53.8	13.8	9	23.4	0	0	0
HG03911 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.19	53.8	14.4	6.4	25.2	0	0.2	0
HG03821 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.55	53.8	10.2	7.6	26.6	1.8	0	0
HG03910 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.50	53.4	9.6	11.8	22.6	2.6	0	0
HG04188 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.48	53.2	11	11.8	24	0	0	0
HG03833 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.99	53	10.2	9.6	25.4	1.8	0	0
HG04156 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.09	52	14.6	9.8	23.6	0	0	0
HG03823 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.33	52	11.8	8.2	27	0	1	0
HG04176 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.19	51.8	11.8	9.4	27	0	0	0
HG03914 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.42	51.6	11.6	10	26.8	0	0	0
HG04155 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.72	51	10.6	11.8	25.4	1.2	0	0
HG04141 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.96	50.8	10.2	11	26.6	1.4	0	0
HG03917 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.08	50.8	12.2	9.6	27.4	0	0	0
HG04189 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.88	50.6	10.4	8	31	0	0	0
HG04164 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.76	50.2	13	9.4	27.4	0	0	0
HG03589 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.34	50.2	11.4	6.8	31.6	0	0	0
HG03826 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.34	49.2	11.6	8.8	27.2	3.2	0	0
HG03808 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.31	49	12.2	12	26.8	0	0	0
HG03829 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.47	48.4	7.6	10.8	30	3.2	0	0
HG03585 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.49	48.4	8.4	11	27.6	3.6	1	0
HG03830 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.70	47.4	10.4	12.6	29.6	0	0	0
HG04173 (Bengali Bangladesh)	1.91	47.2	13	8	31.8	0	0	0
HG03805 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.38	47.2	9.8	8	31.8	1.6	1.6	0
HG03598 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.81	46.8	10.4	10.4	27.4	3.6	1.4	0
HG04153 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.23	46	10.8	9.6	31.8	1.8	0	0
HG04195 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.15	43.8	8.4	10.2	31.4	3.4	2.8	0
HG03937 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.50	43.4	10.8	8.8	37	0	0	0
HG03595 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.29	43	14	10.4	32.6	0	0	0
HG03922 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.29	40.8	11.8	9.6	36.4	0	1.4	0
HG03815 (Bengali Bangladesh)	2.57	39.6	13.2	10.8	36.4	0	0	0

Across the Eastern Gangetic plains, Turan/BMAC related ancestry falls quite a bit, outside of some Brahmins and populations with recent SC Asian admixture it will be low ie 3-5% , its better to use Rors or the Indo Aryan ghost as a proxy . Kangju 121 works as well.

sample: Bengali Bangladesh:Average
distance: 1.0456
Sakilli: 70.5
Jatt_Pathak: 18.5
Chokhopani_2700BP: 5.5
Htin_Mal: 5.5

sample: Bengali Bangladesh:Average
distance: 0.8966
Telugu_GBR: 57
Pulliyar: 18.5
IndoAryan_ghost: 15
Kinh_Vietnam: 9.5

It translates 3-5% on average, Bangali Brahmin have more by virtue of having more Indo Aryan related ancestry
sample: Brahmin West Bengal:Average
distance: 0.8462
Telugu_GBR: 66
IndoAryan_ghost: 31
Kinh_Vietnam: 3

sample: Brahmin West Bengal:Average
distance: 0.4598
Telugu_GBR: 65.5
Srubnaya_Alakul_MLBA: 20.5
Gonur1_BA: 10.5
Chokhopani_2700BP: 2.5
Kinh_Vietnam: 1

sample: Brahmin West Bengal:Average
distance: 1.032
Telugu_GBR: 67
KAZ_Kangju: 31.5
Kinh_Vietnam: 1.5

[Reza]

Do you have the coordinates for this IndoAryan ghost?

[pegasus]

Do you have the coordinates for this IndoAryan ghost?

IndoAryan_ghost,0.118193471513985,0.091005740899425,-0.0034991396500859994,0.06282065038460098,-0.03814214618578499,0.031170950216238,0.0059213227412010004,0.00011332665533399996,-0.03141273019206,-0.03846757281990899,-0.009436955722971,-0.007704135896253,0.007007519299248,-0.021374461195886995,0.020955494571116996,0.021997001133633,-0.0051021161564549986,-0.00022746331058699998,-0.00040837995916199993,-0.001574553175878,-0.005934452739888,-0.0017091431624190001,0.007894845877182,0.005772732756059999,0.006476006019066

[Bengali]

Across the Eastern Gangetic plains, Turan/BMAC related ancestry falls quite a bit, outside of some Brahmins and populations with recent SC Asian admixture it will be low ie 3-5% , its better to use Rors or the Indo Aryan ghost as a proxy . Kangju 121 works as well.

sample: Bengali Bangladesh:Average
distance: 1.0456
Sakilli: 70.5
Jatt_Pathak: 18.5
Chokhopani_2700BP: 5.5
Htin_Mal: 5.5

sample: Bengali Bangladesh:Average
distance: 0.8966
Telugu_GBR: 57
Pulliyar: 18.5
IndoAryan_ghost: 15
Kinh_Vietnam: 9.5

It translates 3-5% on average, Bangali Brahmin have more by virtue of having more Indo Aryan related ancestry
sample: Brahmin West Bengal:Average
distance: 0.8462
Telugu_GBR: 66
IndoAryan_ghost: 31
Kinh_Vietnam: 3

sample: Brahmin West Bengal:Average
distance: 0.4598
Telugu_GBR: 65.5
Srubnaya_Alakul_MLBA: 20.5
Gonur1_BA: 10.5
Chokhopani_2700BP: 2.5
Kinh_Vietnam: 1

sample: Brahmin West Bengal:Average
distance: 1.032
Telugu_GBR: 67
KAZ_Kangju: 31.5
Kinh_Vietnam: 1.5

Thanks for this! These fits don't really work well for my family:

Target: Ammu_scaled
Distance: 1.9339% / 0.01933948
72.8 Telugu_GBR
17.2 Pulliyar
7.8 Kinh_Vietnam
2.2 IndoAryan_ghost


Target: Aba_scaled
Distance: 2.6047% / 0.02604723
59.6 Telugu_GBR
29.4 Pulliyar
6.2 Kinh_Vietnam
4.8 IndoAryan_ghost


Target: Me_scaled
Distance: 2.6534% / 0.02653414
62.4 Telugu_GBR
25.6 Pulliyar
7.2 Kinh_Vietnam
4.8 IndoAryan_ghost

If you look at the fits for my family it's pretty bad...

Would you have another suggestion for assessing Indo-Aryan ancestry? It looks like you get great results modeling Bengalis from Bangladesh and Brahmins from Bangladesh! Here are my family's coordinates for reference:

Me_scaled,0.03187,-0.114755,-0.153111,0.105945,-0.057549,0.065818,-0.002115,0.006923,0.046018,0.030433,-0.009581,-0.002248,-0.003122,-0.00289,-0.011129,-0.009812,-0.002217,-0.00114,0.005531,0.012131,-0.000125,0.002844,0.012448,-0.001205,0.007065
Aba_scaled,0.035285,-0.114755,-0.156128,0.107883,-0.059396,0.059683,-0.00893,0.009,0.045609,0.03262,-0.01088,0.000599,-0.00446,-0.003853,-0.013436,-0.015248,-0.008866,-0.000127,0.003645,0.007879,-0.000998,0.007666,0.004437,0.00253,0.001676
Ammu_scaled,0.03187,-0.11577,-0.156882,0.102068,-0.060627,0.061914,0.000705,0.005538,0.043155,0.029 34,-0.008607,-0.001499,-0.002676,-0.003165,-0.004886,-0.012331,0.008605,-0.0019,-0.000503,0.006503,-0.004866,-0.000495,0.000123,0.000482,0.001197

[pegasus]

Thanks for this! These fits don't really work well for my family:

Target: Ammu_scaled
Distance: 1.9339% / 0.01933948
72.8 Telugu_GBR
17.2 Pulliyar
7.8 Kinh_Vietnam
2.2 IndoAryan_ghost


Target: Aba_scaled
Distance: 2.6047% / 0.02604723
59.6 Telugu_GBR
29.4 Pulliyar
6.2 Kinh_Vietnam
4.8 IndoAryan_ghost


Target: Me_scaled
Distance: 2.6534% / 0.02653414
62.4 Telugu_GBR
25.6 Pulliyar
7.2 Kinh_Vietnam
4.8 IndoAryan_ghost

If you look at the fits for my family it's pretty bad...

Would you have another suggestion for assessing Indo-Aryan ancestry? It looks like you get great results modeling Bengalis from Bangladesh and Brahmins from Bangladesh! Here are my family's coordinates for reference:

Me_scaled,0.03187,-0.114755,-0.153111,0.105945,-0.057549,0.065818,-0.002115,0.006923,0.046018,0.030433,-0.009581,-0.002248,-0.003122,-0.00289,-0.011129,-0.009812,-0.002217,-0.00114,0.005531,0.012131,-0.000125,0.002844,0.012448,-0.001205,0.007065
Aba_scaled,0.035285,-0.114755,-0.156128,0.107883,-0.059396,0.059683,-0.00893,0.009,0.045609,0.03262,-0.01088,0.000599,-0.00446,-0.003853,-0.013436,-0.015248,-0.008866,-0.000127,0.003645,0.007879,-0.000998,0.007666,0.004437,0.00253,0.001676
Ammu_scaled,0.03187,-0.11577,-0.156882,0.102068,-0.060627,0.061914,0.000705,0.005538,0.043155,0.029 34,-0.008607,-0.001499,-0.002676,-0.003165,-0.004886,-0.012331,0.008605,-0.0019,-0.000503,0.006503,-0.004866,-0.000495,0.000123,0.000482,0.001197

For GBR , for Bengali you have to add 4061/3977, the more IVC (3785/4025) is too Zagros rich for them alone.

sample::Aba scaled
distance: 1.8462
Telugu_GBR: 78.5
Srubnaya_Alakul_MLBA: 8.5
Chokhopani_2700BP: 7.5
Gonur1_BA: 4
Kinh_Vietnam: 1.5


sample: :Aba scaled
distance: 1.9153
Telugu_GBR: 78
IndoAryan_ghost: 13
Chokhopani_2700BP: 6.5
Kinh_Vietnam: 2.5

[Bengali]

delete

[parasar]

Yea me and Kapisa are both Y2568*. He has tested further than that, I haven't yet.

Y2568 looks to be pretty widespread.
We have samples from South Asia (Punjab, Maharashtra, UP, Bangal, Gujarat, Tamil Nadu, Kashmir, Lanka, Pathan, essentially pan-South Asian), Arabia (Saudi, Qatar, Kuwait, Yemen), Iraq, Thailand, Vietnam, and North Africa (Algeria).
https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-Y2568
I would not be surprised if the L657+ Jews turn out to be Y2568+ too.

[MonkeyDLuffy]

Y2568 looks to be pretty widespread.
We have samples from South Asia (Punjab, Maharashtra, UP, Bangal, Gujarat, Tamil Nadu, Kashmir, Lanka, Pathan, essentially pan-South Asian), Arabia (Saudi, Qatar, Kuwait, Yemen), Iraq, Thailand, Vietnam, and North Africa (Algeria).
https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-Y2568
I would not be surprised if the L657+ Jews turn out to be Y2568+ too.

Yea we are adventurous folks.

[Bengali]

Y2568 looks to be pretty widespread.
We have samples from South Asia (Punjab, Maharashtra, UP, Bangal, Gujarat, Tamil Nadu, Kashmir, Lanka, Pathan, essentially pan-South Asian), Arabia (Saudi, Qatar, Kuwait, Yemen), Iraq, Thailand, Vietnam, and North Africa (Algeria).
https://www.theytree.com/tree/R-Y2568
I would not be surprised if the L657+ Jews turn out to be Y2568+ too.

I haven't seen this version of the tree before: https://www.theytree.com/tree/Q-Y1144

How does this compare to the yfull: https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-Z5901/

It looks pretty different...which one is right?