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Thread: New Parental Phasing

  1. #101
    Mine has just returned - still Beta, still same number of matches on either side (and unassigned). Apart from a popup at the start, nothing has changed as far as I can see.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulH01 View Post
    Mine has just returned - still Beta, still same number of matches on either side (and unassigned). Apart from a popup at the start, nothing has changed as far as I can see.
    Mine has returned as well as these headings:" Väterlicherseits"
    FTDNA- Group admin-FauntFant, LowerDelmarVa
    23andme,FTDNA,MyHeritage,LivingDNA
    3 Great GP 100% Ireland, 2 Great GP 100% Wales 7 GreatGreats 100% Ireland, 4 GreatGP 100% Wales ,3rdGreat GP Sweden,

    Fantstown Castle 13C Limerick Ancestral

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathlingram View Post
    Mine has returned as well as these headings:" Väterlicherseits"
    How about Mütterlicherseits?

    You know, a few days ago when I initially logged in that day the site was all in German, too. I tried refreshing, and it went back to English.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAbrams View Post
    Edit: 12 hours later. My only phased kit now has been "updated" to phase-less. So all 7 kits are equal in lack of phasing. Thank goodness, nothing worse than a kit out-of-synch.
    And now they are back. All 7 kits are equal in phasing. As I said, Thank Goodness.....

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MAbrams For This Useful Post:

     Kathlingram (11-17-2022),  MacEochaidh (11-16-2022)

  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by geebee View Post
    How about Mütterlicherseits?

    You know, a few days ago when I initially logged in that day the site was all in German, too. I tried refreshing, and it went back to English.

    Yes , the Mother's line was there too.. I did not take German in HS 3 years of Latin and 2 of French.. so I left lol
    FTDNA- Group admin-FauntFant, LowerDelmarVa
    23andme,FTDNA,MyHeritage,LivingDNA
    3 Great GP 100% Ireland, 2 Great GP 100% Wales 7 GreatGreats 100% Ireland, 4 GreatGP 100% Wales ,3rdGreat GP Sweden,

    Fantstown Castle 13C Limerick Ancestral

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     geebee (11-17-2022),  MacEochaidh (11-17-2022)

  8. #106
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    Annoyingly, Ancestry is insisting on keeping the fourth person, RH -- the one I can't figure out why she's there -- in my "Both" category. The other three are obvious, my daughter and two of my nieces. Since all three are my parents grandchildren, of course they're on both sides.

    RH, however, has179 shared matches on my mother's side, but zero shared matches on my father's side, While Ancestry does the label "Maternal" by RH's name, it's only because I've identified her as such. But instead of simply noting that I've done so, in this case clicking on the "info" circle brings up this message:

    "We think this match is on your Both side, but you labeled them Maternal. Do you want to keep your label or update it?"

    So each time I have to click on "Keep" and ignore the word "Update" -- which they display more prominently in a blue oval. It's obvious that they really, really think they're right and I'm wrong.

    But ... they've given me absolutely no reason to believe they know what they're talking about here. I suppose they may have some reason to think that at least one of the three segments we share is a paternal one, but without a chromosome browser I'd have no way to ever confirm that.

    As it stands now, I believe it's more likely that RH is shown as "both" due to some phasing error on Ancestry's part than because she legitimately is on both sides. She's definitely a maternal match, but I'm pretty sure that if she's related to anyone on my paternal side it's without actually being related to me.

    It really is too bad I can't get either parent tested at Ancestry, since both are now deceased. If only Ancestry would allow uploads from other companies, my dad at least has v2-v3 results from 23andMe.

    EDIT: The only thing I can figure is that, looking at the first several matches I share with RD, a number of them (but not RD herself) are on both sides. But this is because the shared matches happen to be my daughter and nieces. The fact that these three are on both sides is absolutely irrelevant to any other matches. All three of these are my parents' granddaughters, so of course they're on both sides.

    But RD herself does not have any of the three as a shared match, so our shared segments have to be in locations I don't share with my daughter -- which eliminates half my DNA -- or with either of my sisters' daughters. That eliminates another significant amount of my DNA, though obviously not all.
    Last edited by geebee; 11-17-2022 at 05:15 PM.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

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     MacEochaidh (11-17-2022)

  10. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathlingram View Post
    Yes , the Mother's line was there too.. I did not take German in HS 3 years of Latin and 2 of French.. so I left lol
    I have been scratching my head to recall my 3 years of Latin for another thread concerning discussions of Latin texts as clues to where various Germanic/Celtic tribes were before the AngloSaxons emerged.

    Getting back to this thread.
    Being in Australia, we are on a mirror site and perhaps because of that had less disruption.
    The "back office" did freeze up for a few days and some things were unavailable.
    This usually means trees are not accessible, but this time it was the parental assignments of matches as well.
    For us it all happened around the beginning of the month, because it was all settled down by the 5th Nov.

    Friends who are newly into DNA are finding it a major help.
    Meanwhile I am sorting out my more distant mystery matches (mostly 15-25 cM, but up to 50) on websites with a chromosome browser.
    Last edited by Saetro; 11-17-2022 at 10:59 PM.

  11. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by geebee View Post
    Annoyingly, Ancestry is insisting on keeping the fourth person, RH -- the one I can't figure out why she's there -- in my "Both" category. The other three are obvious, my daughter and two of my nieces. Since all three are my parents grandchildren, of course they're on both sides.

    RH, however, has179 shared matches on my mother's side, but zero shared matches on my father's side, While Ancestry does the label "Maternal" by RH's name, it's only because I've identified her as such. But instead of simply noting that I've done so, in this case clicking on the "info" circle brings up this message:

    "We think this match is on your Both side, but you labeled them Maternal. Do you want to keep your label or update it?"

    So each time I have to click on "Keep" and ignore the word "Update" -- which they display more prominently in a blue oval. It's obvious that they really, really think they're right and I'm wrong.

    But ... they've given me absolutely no reason to believe they know what they're talking about here. I suppose they may have some reason to think that at least one of the three segments we share is a paternal one, but without a chromosome browser I'd have no way to ever confirm that.

    As it stands now, I believe it's more likely that RH is shown as "both" due to some phasing error on Ancestry's part than because she legitimately is on both sides. She's definitely a maternal match, but I'm pretty sure that if she's related to anyone on my paternal side it's without actually being related to me.

    It really is too bad I can't get either parent tested at Ancestry, since both are now deceased. If only Ancestry would allow uploads from other companies, my dad at least has v2-v3 results from 23andMe.

    EDIT: The only thing I can figure is that, looking at the first several matches I share with RD, a number of them (but not RD herself) are on both sides. But this is because the shared matches happen to be my daughter and nieces. The fact that these three are on both sides is absolutely irrelevant to any other matches. All three of these are my parents' granddaughters, so of course they're on both sides.

    But RD herself does not have any of the three as a shared match, so our shared segments have to be in locations I don't share with my daughter -- which eliminates half my DNA -- or with either of my sisters' daughters. That eliminates another significant amount of my DNA, though obviously not all.
    One thing to consider is that this match could be a close relation on your mother’s side but distant on your father’s. It would be helpful for both sides matches if Ancestry gave you the cm breakdown per side. Looking at my dad’s 4 both sides matches they are all 16-20 cm in total so presumably have only 8-10cm on each side. None of these have shared matches on either side.

    My grandmothers tree is all Wales so has more shared matches. Her largest is 61cm and has a good number of shared matches on both sides. The next one is 37cm and only has 2 shared matches both on the same side.

    Another thing Ancestry should do is update Common Ancestors to allow for the possibility of more than one for each match

  12. #109
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    For a couple of the assigned matches I can't tell for sure, but for those I can tell, it is correct. However, it is strange that even some very clearly paternal or maternal matches, of which some have a big overlap and common matches, like being the daughter or niece of an assigned match, being not assigned. That's just strange, because if they have such an elaborated algorithm, and they figured out one of the main matches from a cluster, they should be able to assign all those close matches in common as well. But apparently they aren't up to this point, resulting in just a miniscule fraction of my matches being assigned at all.
    If I click on one of my main matches from each side, I get a good number of solid, higher (above 40 cM) matches which are clearly from the paternal or maternal side respectively. But the algorithm can't achieve the same. Kind of funny they assign some remote 8 cM, about which I can't say anything, but some 100+ cM matches which are pretty straightforward don't get it.

  13. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loderingo View Post
    One thing to consider is that this match could be a close relation on your mother’s side but distant on your father’s. It would be helpful for both sides matches if Ancestry gave you the cm breakdown per side. Looking at my dad’s 4 both sides matches they are all 16-20 cm in total so presumably have only 8-10cm on each side. None of these have shared matches on either side.

    My grandmothers tree is all Wales so has more shared matches. Her largest is 61cm and has a good number of shared matches on both sides. The next one is 37cm and only has 2 shared matches both on the same side.

    Another thing Ancestry should do is update Common Ancestors to allow for the possibility of more than one for each match
    Yes, it's always possible there could be a distant connection on my father's side. It's just that Ancestry gives no reason for me to think so, other than their insistence that the match is on both sides. As I noted, out of 179 shared matches, all are on my mother's side. That doesn't mean we actually can't have any shared matches on my father's side, at least when you take into consideration the 20 cM threshold for reporting a match as shared -- and especially in light of Timber's tampering with match length. I've seen Timber whittle a match down from over 70 cM unweighted to less than 20 cM adjusted.

    But if Ancestry is going to claim that a match is on both sides, they ought to back that up. They could at the very least split the allocation of segments. For example, they say that RH and I shared 31 cM across 3 segments (after Timber cut the match from 47 cM unweighted, that is). How many of these segments are maternal? How many are paternal?

    Ultimately, I have the advantage of being able to compare at least most of my close family members at both Ancestry and 23andMe, and I can tell you without a doubt that at least where Ancestry's "Ethnicity Analysis" is concerned, there are clear errors in phasing that are probably the result of some of Ancestry's "simplifying assumptions". That is, although it's possible to determine who is Parent1 and who is Parent2 on the whole, it occasionally breaks down on parts of specific chromosomes. So obviously the phasing is not perfect -- at least with respect to the ethnicity feature. Whether this is also a factor in determining side for match purposes, I don't know.

    Ultimately, I think I have pretty good coverage of my genome where matches are concerned. My father had twelve brothers and sisters, and my paternal matches include four 1st cousins on his side from three different of his siblings (two of the cousins are sisters), plus numerous 1st cousins once removed who descend from additional siblings. I also have a paternal 1st cousin once removed who is the daughter of my paternal grandfather's brother.

    In addition to this I have several half 2nd cousins who descend from my paternal grandmother's father, so I have a fair number of relatively close matches on both my father's sides.

    On my mother's side, I have one 1st cousin once removed on her father's side -- a 1st cousin to my mother -- plus at least three 2nd cousins on this same side. I also have a number of half 2nd cousins on my mother's mother's side. In addition I have a number of 3rd cousins on each parent's side -- in fact, each grandparent's side -- and of course hundreds of more distant relatives. It really is too bad that Ancestry makes no use of the X chromosome (despite testing for it), because I know from 23andMe that I have matches across its entire breadth, and I can easily identify which part of it is from which maternal grandparent. All but about 20 cM surrounding the centromere came from my maternal grandfather; the 20 cM came from my grandmother.

    I also have some relatives -- besides my daughter and one of my nieces -- who've tested at both Ancestry and 23andMe, so that I can compare them at both places. The differences are sometimes quite illuminating.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

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