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Thread: New Parental Phasing

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by C J Wyatt III View Post
    I am skeptical about what AncestryDNA is trying to do. With current testing we can't tell which side an allele comes from. I doubt if the assumptions used in computation hold up.
    What about the ethnicity chromosomal painting they did earlier?
    And 23andMe has done for ages?

    My parents came from quite different parts of Europe, with no connection between those sides for centuries and probably at least a couple of millennia.
    And yet Ancestry did a patchy job in assigning ethnicity to chromosomes, when I compare my own chromosome painting to theirs.
    They have painted over some minority segments with a majority assignment.
    But these are all from one parent. So for this exercise, they are OK for me.

    But on this showing, maybe not for others.
    People who have parents from fairly much the same country/countries are likely to have lots of mis-assignments.
    Unless Ancestry hands out "unassigned" with gay abandon.

    All of the current known ethnicity assignment difficulties are probably going to turn up again in some of these assignments.

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  3. #12
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    It is an interesting feature.

    These are my maternal surnames (bolded are known ancestors):
    Higgins
    Bell
    Broderick
    Finan
    Mcdermott
    Bailey
    Barnett
    Barton
    Beasley
    Cahill

    My paternal surnames:
    Fleming
    Higgins
    Finn
    Flynn
    Gallagher
    Barber
    Brown
    Burke
    Butler
    Carroll

    Mum's paternal surnames:
    Burke
    Duffy
    Bailey
    Scott
    Adams
    Anderson
    Ashton
    Blundell
    Brennan
    Butler

    Mum's maternal surnames:
    Broderick
    Clark
    Martin
    Convery
    Crawley
    Finn
    Alden
    Brown
    Finan
    Johnson

    Paternal aunt's father's side:
    Flynn
    Kilbride
    Finn
    Brown
    Burke
    Connelly
    Coppinger
    Hallissey
    Hallissy
    Hart

    Paternal aunt's mother's side:
    Higgins
    Fleming
    Conneally
    Adams
    Connor
    Davies
    Davis
    Devlin
    Dolan
    Ward

    Paternal great aunt's surnames on mother's side:
    Burke
    Clark
    Deffely
    Flanagan
    Agnew
    Atkinson
    Barker
    Bligh
    Bradley
    Bradly

    Paternal great aunt's surnames on father's side:
    Kelly
    Murphy
    Brown
    Dwyer
    Finn
    Thompson
    Burns
    Cunningham
    Hart
    Smith
    Ancestry: Ireland (Paper trail ≅ 81.25% Roscommon, 12.5% Galway, 6.25% Mayo)
    Y-DNA (P) ancestor (Y): Kelly b. c1830 in Co. Roscommon (Uí Maine)
    mtDNA (P) ancestor: Fleming b. c1831 in Co. Roscommon
    mtDNA (M) ancestor: McDermott b. c1814 in Co. Roscommon
    mtDNA Great grandfather: Connella b. c1798 in Co. Roscommon (T2a1a8)
    Y-DNA 2x great grandfather: Higgins b. c1816 in Co. Roscommon (R-DF109)
    Y-DNA 3x great grandfather: Fleming b. c1829 in Co. Roscommon (R-Z23534)

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  5. #13
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    Here is a tidbit that I think bears noting....after comparing stats with another member

    Regarding the Unassigned (I have 4,690).

    "Why are some matches unassigned?
    If a match appears in this category, it could be because their test was processed after our last update or because we don't have enough information to assign them to one parent or the other.

    You may see updates in the future, in which case some unassigned matches may be assigned to a side."


    I sorted my list by Date, Newest to Oldest


    For my newest Paternal match, I just happened to date it. Pure serendipity. March 26 2022. So it's interesting that no new matches have been phased in the last 6 months.. I know sales are rather slow, but 6 months of sales does add up.

    I didnt realize that there was such a time lag. I thought they meant a few days.

    And they may be updated. May??

    ~~~~

    Another reason for many Unassigned is that any archived matches from 6 to 8 are not phased. I have about 16-1700 of those, so my 4690-1600 = a bit over 3000, of which 1000 (??) are newish, after March 26 or whatever the key date was.

    I am estimating about 2000 truly Unassigned. Some of which I can manually phase.
    Last edited by MAbrams; 10-06-2022 at 09:27 PM.

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  7. #14
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    Regarding "Both Sides"

    I have three Purple Bucketed "Both" matches at FTDNA
    All three are at GEDmatch where they show up with "People who match both kits, or 1 of 2 kits", using my two phased kits.

    All three are at Ancestry, and all three are Unassigned. In baseball parlance, a strike out. Or end of inning.
    Heck, I would think there should be at least a maternal or paternal phasing.



    I do have one "Both Sides" at Ancestry. But only at Ancestry.

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  9. #15
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    I’ve noticed something interesting. As I said; most of my matches are unassigned ( more than 1700).
    Parent 1 has 60 matches; parent 2- 147 matches. When I go through them; I share with them mostly one ethnicity - Eastern Europe and Russia. Most of them are people of mixed ethnicities with many other regions; they aren’t Bulgarians or from the Balkans. They are too distant. With that being said, I still can’t figure out which parent is 1 and which is 2. My closest matches ( I have one second cousin; the rest is 50 cM and less) are unassigned. Based on the numbers of the assigned matches ( 207 out of 1770) ; I guess these somewhat based on only one ethnicity. I hope this will be improved and be updated; since this ethnicity isn’t even the main one in my results.

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     Rufus191 (10-08-2022)

  11. #16
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    I'm actually surprised that Ancestry doesn't do any better than they do with my "unassigned". Ever since Ancestry came up with the idea of being able to assign people to groups, I've grouped people according to whether our shared matches were on my father's side or my mother's side, and then specifically whether on my father's mother's side or my father's father's side; or my mother's mother's side or my father's father's side. I've done this now for over 1,900 of my closest matches.

    One thing that makes it easier is that my paternal grandmother was the only child of her parents together. Her mother never had any other children, so the offspring of her father are all half siblings to her. And there are a lot of them -- twelve, I think. So I have quite a few paternal half 2nd cousins through my grandmother's father.

    My maternal grandmother had two full siblings, and only one of those had children. As far as I can tell, neither my full 1st cousins once removed -- my mother's maternal 1st cousins -- nor their descendants have taken a DNA test; but lots of the descendants of my grandmother's half sisters have. And here, too, I have a lot of maternal half 2nd cousins.

    But to illustrate my puzzlement with Ancestry's difficulty, I have a cousin who shares 110 cM with me across 5 segments, with a longest segment of 58 cM, and yet he's unassigned. But looking at our shared matches, only five matches are ambiguous in the least. But these really aren't ambiguous, since one of them is my daughter and two of them are my nieces. Of course these would be on both sides.

    Then the next of is a 1st cousin once removed. I'm actually the "removed", since this person is a 1st cousin to my mother. So he's descended from both of my maternal grandfather's parents, as are my two 2nd cousins in the list.

    Then I have a 2nd cousin once removed. She also is "up" from me -- my mother's 2nd cousin. She's clearly related to me on my grandfather's maternal grandmother's side -- as are all the other shared matches down to 20 cM. So it's pretty darned clear that this match who shares over 100 cM with me is on my mother's side, and specifically on my mother's father's side, and my mother's father's mother's side.

    So why can't Ancestry also get this figured out?

    Here's their explanation:

    If a match appears in this category, it could be because their test was processed after our last update or because we don't have enough information to assign them to one parent or the other.

    Neither of these conditions seem to apply, and this is also true of many other of my 3,090 "Unassigned" matches. In the vast majority of cases, I could easily determine a side -- and have. In fact, of the 25 "Unassigned" matches who share less than 100 cM with me but at least 30 cM, there are only two for whom I can't determine which grandparent I'm likely related to them through, let alone which parent. (And in most cases, which great grandparent.)

    One further complaint involves a somewhat different topic, which is how heavy-handed Timber is. My 2nd "Unassigned" match was reduced by Timber by a whopping 34 cM, from 84 cM to 50 cM. The longest segment is 46 cM, so Timber's adjusted amount is a mere 4 cM greater than one of the three segments all by itself.

    I don't think Ancestry has fully taken into account that if an ancestor has many, many descendants it is inevitable that some will have more than the expected amount of sharing. (It's also likely that the ancestor will have passed on all of his or her DNA.)

    I have one ancestor who had at least twenty children by four different women, included two who were sisters to each other. ThruLines says the number of people I might be related to through this man is 682. Nor does he represent the ThruLine ancestor through whom I share the most matches. That would be one of my "Indigenous Americas" ancestors, and my ThruLines matches through him number 802. And I'm descended from him twice (and many of my matches have even more connections back to him).

    This doesn't mean my matches here are really all that big, because the DNA I inherited from this ancestor -- and it does appear likely that I inherited a bit -- ended up being filtered through an ever-smaller group of people. But it does mean there are likely more folks with whom I share a little.

    (Given that the number of this man's living descendants who have tested at Ancestry is over 800, I would guess that the total number could be in the thousands.)

    EDIT: I don't want to leave the impression that most of my matches are unassigned. My current maternal matches number 15,739 and my paternal matches number 14,480. So it looks as if my 3,090 unassigned matches are a little less than 10% of the total.

    2nd EDIT: What I really don't understand is why my daughter -- both of whose parents tested! -- still has 2,193 unassigned matches. These unassigned matches include two who share over 100 cM with her. Both are definitely on my side.

    But c'mon. If they don't match either of her parents, then either blame stupid Timber, or else dismiss the matches as likely not real.

    Interestingly, though, I was amazed that one of my 2nd cousins on my maternal grandfather's side is on this list. Except ... he does not show up when I go to the unassigned matches. In other words he seems to be in limbo -- maybe update limbo?

    But really? The guy is my 2nd cousin, shares 116 cM with my daughter, and Ancestry can't decide he's on her paternal side?

    Then there's my 3rd cousin who shows common ancestors with me in her tree -- 2nd great grandparents on both sides. We share a 138 cM in 9 segments, with a longest segment of 21 cM. She and my daughter are 3rd cousins once removed, share 100 cM in 6 segments and also have a longest segment of 21 cM.

    But Ancestry can't figure out which side she's on for my daughter?
    Last edited by geebee; 10-07-2022 at 06:49 AM.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

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  13. #17
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    I have 7619 matches via "Parent 1", who I believe is my dad and Ancestry has put my known paternal matches with this parent. The common surnames on that side (known ancestral names on my dad's side in bold) -

    Brown
    Smith

    Anderson
    Bailey
    Blackburn
    Harrison
    Aspinall
    Atherton
    Birkenhead
    Birkett

    I have 8360 matches via "Parent 2", and they've put my known maternal matches with this parent. The common surnames on that side (known ancestral names in bold) -

    Taylor
    Aldred
    Cox
    Hall
    Jones
    Beecroft
    Brown
    Burks
    Campion
    Smith


    7118 matches are unassigned, whilst 1 is shown as both parents. That match is my maternal first cousin, although there was a possible link where my grandmothers would have been something like eleventh cousins. I don't currently have that link in my tree, though.

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  15. #18
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    This is correct my dads cousins is showing up as parent one so I can confirm the matches are from his side
    With high coverage Guanche sample 011
    SUCCESS p=.985
    55 Guanche.SG_11
    32 Canaanite_MLBA
    13 COG_MatangaiTuru_IA

    SUCCESS p=.978
    50 Guanche.SG_11
    40 BedouinB.DG
    11 COG_MatangaiTuru_IA

    G25 results

    Target: Me
    Distance: 1.4691% / 0.01469064 | R5P
    52.8 Berber_MAR_TIZ
    21.2 Yemenite_Mahra
    17.8 Greek_Cyclades_Amorgos
    5.4 Yoruba
    2.8 Bulala





    R11109 MALE 1 CE 1749.5 400 CE ARCHAEOLOGY Isola_Sacra Y-DNA: J-Y15222 mtDNA: X2m'n

  16. #19
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    Happily I was one of those who got brief glimpses of what might happen.. First in August I guess when it became obvious that my newly identified Welsh Grandfather wasn't just partly Welsh..which explained the years of his identity being slowly obvious by all my awesome Welsh cousins ( close to 800 and growing) Sister is 40% Welsh and I am 33-38% ( it varied)
    Ancestry DNA then showed me that ALL my Welsh ancestry was from my paternal side We all sort of knew that something else would be revealed SOON! HOWEVER Dad's ethnicity was revealed to be ONLY on my paternal lines Boom! Wales Parent #1
    It started popping up for me 3 days ago.. Sort of miraculously I got 6 new 5th and 6th Greats who came bringing new cousin matches with them. Some had 18 cousins nestled in with the rest of us

    My assumption is that Ancestry could see my sister and I having all our Welsh paternally AND an added bonus for them is that MOST of my Welsh cousins were 90-100% Welsh .
    The cousin matches who were NOT 100% they had already identified as being " 60% or more " and the additional group was "Common communities
    These are the most common communities of your closest parent 1 matches. Delaware & Chesapeake Bay Settlers Delaware Valley, Chesapeake & Midwest Settlers New Jersey & Eastern Pennsylvania Settlers Wales
    and..Common communities
    These are the most common communities of your closest parent 2 matches. New Jersey & Eastern Pennsylvania Settlers Ulster, Ireland Donegal, Ireland Early Pennsylvania Settlers

    I think this was done fairly accurately

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  18. #20
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    I note the help thread does imply it is not infallible

    "If a match is labeled incorrectly or is unassigned, you can change their label. From your list of DNA matches, click on their name > Edit Relationship > select the right parent label > Save. Our algorithm will improve over time—but in the meantime, you can change the label for any match. Matches that you manually labeled will appear with an icon info that shows you that you labeled the match yourself."

    https://support.ancestry.com/s/artic...language=en_US

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