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Thread: DF27 in Armenia

  1. #1
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    DF27 in Armenia

    I don't know if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I couldn't find anything, so decided to start a new thread.

    An Armenian has just tested P312+. He has only two matches at 67 markers (GD 5 @ 67), and they are both also Armenians who are related to each other.

    I did a quick check of the Armenia project, and found that while other haplogroups were present, the vast majority appeared to be some type of J.

    There was a fair number of R1b, but almost all of them were L11-.

    I suppose there are a number of possible scenarios how P312 got there, but I would love to know what this Armenian's P312 subclade is.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenHind View Post
    I don't know if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I couldn't find anything, so decided to start a new thread.

    An Armenian has just tested P312+. He has only two matches at 67 markers (GD 5 @ 67), and they are both also Armenians who are related to each other.

    I did a quick check of the Armenia project, and found that while other haplogroups were present, the vast majority appeared to be some type of J.

    There was a fair number of R1b, but almost all of them were L11-.

    I suppose there are a number of possible scenarios how P312 got there, but I would love to know what this Armenian's P312 subclade is.
    He has just recently joined the P312 Facebook page and seems very interested in testing downstream. Does anything about his str string jump out at all giving hints on what he should test for next?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webb View Post
    He has just recently joined the P312 Facebook page and seems very interested in testing downstream. Does anything about his str string jump out at all giving hints on what he should test for next?
    Billy -

    I am wondering how long his paternal line has been in Armenia.

    Stephen
    Administrator, Parrish/Parish, Maxfield, and Wrigley DNA projects (hosted by Family Tree DNA unless otherwise noted)
    Administrator, Maryland regional DNA project and British Quakers DNA project
    Administrator, Early New England Colonists DNA project
    Co-administrator, DF27+ and Subclades and SRY2627+/L176.2+/Z198+ haplogroup DNA projects
    Administrator, Facebook R1b-P312+ haplogroup group

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Parrish View Post
    Billy -

    I am wondering how long his paternal line has been in Armenia.

    Stephen
    I was going to chat with him but he is currently being bombarded by another member. LOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webb View Post
    I was going to chat with him but he is currently being bombarded by another member. LOL.
    There is another member spouting junk science, but I was the original one who directed him to test P312 in the first place, "bombarding" isn't exactly he term I would use. The fact that his match is a GD of 5 and comes from the same town in the region doesn't support their ancestors being of foreign origins.

    If there is any shred in truth that the Armenian speakers were immigrants to the region, possibly from the west, then R1b is the strongest candidate due to the overwhelming dominance of J2, J1, and G2 in the Caucasus region as a whole. If this were true, P312 was likely around then, and possibly a minority among those first men. It's actually not all that surprising when you consider the mix of various R1b in western Turkey, Greece, and the Balkans as a whole.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    There is another member spouting junk science, but I was the original one who directed him to test P312 in the first place, "bombarding" isn't exactly he term I would use. The fact that his match is a GD of 5 and comes from the same town in the region doesn't support their ancestors being of foreign origins.

    If there is any shred in truth that the Armenian speakers were immigrants to the region, possibly from the west, then R1b is the strongest candidate due to the overwhelming dominance of J2, J1, and G2 in the Caucasus region as a whole. If this were true, P312 was likely around then, and possibly a minority among those first men. It's actually not all that surprising when you consider the mix of various R1b in western Turkey, Greece, and the Balkans as a whole.
    I wouldn't LOL about someone giving someone else sound advice. It's the junk science thing. In fact I'm hoping the junk science thing doesn't scare him off.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webb View Post
    I was going to chat with him but he is currently being bombarded by another member. LOL.
    Yeah, he is rather enthusiastic isn't he?!
     
    Y-DNA : R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>L176.2>Z262>SRY2627*

    mtDNA : J1c8

    Lactase Persistence: rs4988235 - AA rs182549 - TT

    EEF 49.22068981
    WHG 35.89409732
    ANE 14.88521287


    Eurogenes K7:
    WHG 61.67%
    ENF 19.35%
    ANE 15.21%


    Ysearch - ky8wb

    ftdna - 151463

    23andMe - M936999

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Isaack View Post
    Yeah, he is rather enthusiastic isn't he?!
    Yes he is, and I would hate to see Mr. Armenian P312 test for something based on the fact that Mr. Enthusiastic is trying to convince him he is Galatian. So the sooner someone from the P312 group can look at his string and advise him on what to test for next, the better.

  10. #9
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    Yes, I hate to say it, but that page really needs to be cleaned up.
     
    Y-DNA : R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>L176.2>Z262>SRY2627*

    mtDNA : J1c8

    Lactase Persistence: rs4988235 - AA rs182549 - TT

    EEF 49.22068981
    WHG 35.89409732
    ANE 14.88521287


    Eurogenes K7:
    WHG 61.67%
    ENF 19.35%
    ANE 15.21%


    Ysearch - ky8wb

    ftdna - 151463

    23andMe - M936999

  11. #10
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    I seem to recall hearing that Armenia is a particularly interesting region as it has a fairly wide diversity of haplogroups. I'm no expert on that region but I had a quick look at the Wiki and it seems that, by some studies, R1b is roughly 30%.

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