Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Thread: How well can 23andMe distinguish Iberian and Northern Italian?

  1. #1
    Global Moderator
    Posts
    1,619
    Sex
    Location
    Cambridge MA / Rome, Italy / San Diego, CA (currently)
    Ethnicity
    Polish/British Isles
    Nationality
    U.S.
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Y154732
    mtDNA (M)
    H1
    mtDNA (P)
    J1c2

    Poland England Ireland Munster

    How well can 23andMe distinguish Iberian and Northern Italian?

    There's a case on FB of a Brazilian who believes her great-grandfather's parents immigrated from North Italy: Veneto and Marche respectively. 23andMe only assigns her 1.4% broadly Southern European and 64% Spanish and Portuguese, mainly Portuguese, but 0% Italian.

    How well can 23andMe distinguish Iberian and Northern Italian?
    YFull: YF14620 (Dante Labs 2018)

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to pmokeefe For This Useful Post:

     Luso (11-01-2022)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,492
    Sex
    Location
    UK
    Ethnicity
    NW Tuscan/Italian
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U152+Z36+A7967
    mtDNA (M)
    U6a7a1c1

    Scotland Italy Tuscany
    Is inheritance not whole random and we are talking about a great-grandfather after all.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cascio For This Useful Post:

     Luso (11-01-2022),  pmokeefe (11-01-2022)

  5. #3
    Global Moderator
    Posts
    1,619
    Sex
    Location
    Cambridge MA / Rome, Italy / San Diego, CA (currently)
    Ethnicity
    Polish/British Isles
    Nationality
    U.S.
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Y154732
    mtDNA (M)
    H1
    mtDNA (P)
    J1c2

    Poland England Ireland Munster
    Quote Originally Posted by Cascio View Post
    Is inheritance not whole random and we are talking about a great-grandfather after all.
    According to this 23andMe page Average Percent DNA Shared Between Relatives the range for great-grandparents is 4% - 23%.
    YFull: YF14620 (Dante Labs 2018)

  6. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,492
    Sex
    Location
    UK
    Ethnicity
    NW Tuscan/Italian
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U152+Z36+A7967
    mtDNA (M)
    U6a7a1c1

    Scotland Italy Tuscany
    Quote Originally Posted by pmokeefe View Post
    According to this 23andMe page Average Percent DNA Shared Between Relatives the range for great-grandparents is 4% - 23%.
    I don't have great faith in 23andMe to be honest.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Cascio For This Useful Post:

     Gentica277282 (11-01-2022)

  8. #5
    Global Moderator
    Posts
    1,619
    Sex
    Location
    Cambridge MA / Rome, Italy / San Diego, CA (currently)
    Ethnicity
    Polish/British Isles
    Nationality
    U.S.
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Y154732
    mtDNA (M)
    H1
    mtDNA (P)
    J1c2

    Poland England Ireland Munster
    Quote Originally Posted by Cascio View Post
    I don't have great faith in 23andMe to be honest.
    ISOGG gives a range of 485-1486 cm for great-grandparents.
    Another source for great-grandparent sharing: https://dna-explained.com/2020/01/14...-grandparents/
    YFull: YF14620 (Dante Labs 2018)

  9. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to pmokeefe For This Useful Post:

     Cascio (11-01-2022),  Ruderico (11-01-2022),  vettor (11-01-2022),  ZWQ (11-01-2022)

  10. #6
    Global Moderator
    Posts
    4,908
    Sex
    Location
    Vissaiom
    Ethnicity
    Portuguese highlander
    aDNA Match (1st)
    Romano-Lusitanian:Miroiço_R10500
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    Lusitanian:Conimbriga_R10488
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-Y31991>FT17866
    mtDNA (M)
    H20 (xH20a)

    Asturias Galicia Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ PortugalRoyalFlag1830
    I'm yet to see an Iberian with any meaningful levels of Italian, from my experience they separate the two quite well, but for something that distant who knows.
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~1100AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.497"
    Ruderico

    Galaico-Lusitanian,72.2
    Berber_IA_EMA,9.6
    Briton_IA,9.2
    Roman_Colonial,9

    RY'N NI YMA O HYD!

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ruderico For This Useful Post:

     Luso (11-01-2022),  pmokeefe (11-01-2022)

  12. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    901
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Human
    Nationality
    Luso-American
    aDNA Match (1st)
    Roman-Lusitanian_AD_426:R10500
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Z225
    mtDNA (M)
    H1c3*

    Portugal Portugal 1143 Galicia
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    I'm yet to see an Iberian with any meaningful levels of Italian, from my experience they separate the two quite well, but for something that distant who knows.
    Seems like we rlly tried to avoid them Iberian tribes said no to intermingling and rape true warrior spirit

    In seriousness, I've expected some very roman based samples with italic like admixture and suprised as well. Where did Romans settle the most in western Iberia? South, central, or north?
    [1] "distance%=1.5901"

    Luso

    West_Iberia_IA,53.2
    Roman_Colonial,19.2
    Germanic_Migration,17.4
    ITA_Sardinia_C_o,7.8
    Berber_EMA,2.4

    My Paternal Lineage-

    My dad's father- R-Z225- São Bartolomeu de Messines, Silves, Portugal
    My dad's mother- H5a- Alcantarilha, Silves, Portugal


    Maternal Lineage-

    My mom's mother- H1c3- Monchique, Silves, Portugal
    My mom's father- G2a-Y65- Lagoa, Ferragudo, Portugal

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Luso For This Useful Post:

     Pedro Ruben (11-01-2022),  Ruderico (11-01-2022)

  14. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    901
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Human
    Nationality
    Luso-American
    aDNA Match (1st)
    Roman-Lusitanian_AD_426:R10500
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Z225
    mtDNA (M)
    H1c3*

    Portugal Portugal 1143 Galicia
    Quote Originally Posted by pmokeefe View Post
    There's a case on FB of a Brazilian who believes her great-grandfather's parents immigrated from North Italy: Veneto and Marche respectively. 23andMe only assigns her 1.4% broadly Southern European and 64% Spanish and Portuguese, mainly Portuguese, but 0% Italian.

    How well can 23andMe distinguish Iberian and Northern Italian?
    Sounds like a family tale for her family. Or rather, a confusion...I got many in my family and we are fully Portuguese from the south. Ie: connections to Naples Italy, askanazi Jews, Denmark, etc. all just from oral mouth over generations

    But again, if you remember my dad got a 6.2% Italian result. I posted a thread ab it.. on all calculators, other commercial tests it doesn't appear aside from 23andMe. So it is true it can happen but I doubt to the extent that it did for that woman.
    Last edited by Luso; 11-01-2022 at 08:22 PM.
    [1] "distance%=1.5901"

    Luso

    West_Iberia_IA,53.2
    Roman_Colonial,19.2
    Germanic_Migration,17.4
    ITA_Sardinia_C_o,7.8
    Berber_EMA,2.4

    My Paternal Lineage-

    My dad's father- R-Z225- São Bartolomeu de Messines, Silves, Portugal
    My dad's mother- H5a- Alcantarilha, Silves, Portugal


    Maternal Lineage-

    My mom's mother- H1c3- Monchique, Silves, Portugal
    My mom's father- G2a-Y65- Lagoa, Ferragudo, Portugal

  15. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Luso For This Useful Post:

     Pedro Ruben (11-01-2022),  pmokeefe (11-01-2022),  Ruderico (11-01-2022)

  16. #9
    Global Moderator
    Posts
    4,908
    Sex
    Location
    Vissaiom
    Ethnicity
    Portuguese highlander
    aDNA Match (1st)
    Romano-Lusitanian:Miroiço_R10500
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    Lusitanian:Conimbriga_R10488
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-Y31991>FT17866
    mtDNA (M)
    H20 (xH20a)

    Asturias Galicia Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ PortugalRoyalFlag1830
    Quote Originally Posted by Luso View Post
    Seems like we rlly tried to avoid them Iberian tribes said no to intermingling and rape true warrior spirit

    In seriousness, I've expected some very roman based samples with italic like admixture and suprised as well. Where did Romans settle the most in western Iberia? South, central, or north?
    The most romanised areas were South and along the coastline, even in the north, for instance Braga was a very important city in the region. It was the poorer and most remote areas that attracted the least attention. That said the whole country was thoroughly romanised, but how much of this was accompanied by non-local citizens I don't know - and I don't think anyone really does, which is why we have these ancient population genetics studies for us to enjoy
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~1100AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.497"
    Ruderico

    Galaico-Lusitanian,72.2
    Berber_IA_EMA,9.6
    Briton_IA,9.2
    Roman_Colonial,9

    RY'N NI YMA O HYD!

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ruderico For This Useful Post:

     Luso (11-01-2022),  pmokeefe (11-01-2022)

  18. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    96
    Sex
    Location
    Guimarães
    Ethnicity
    Iberian
    Nationality
    Portuguese
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-Z93>>Z2122>Y57
    mtDNA (M)
    H7a

    Portugal Portugal 1143 Portugal Order of Christ Brazilian Empire
    Quote Originally Posted by pmokeefe View Post
    There's a case on FB of a Brazilian who believes her great-grandfather's parents immigrated from North Italy: Veneto and Marche respectively. 23andMe only assigns her 1.4% broadly Southern European and 64% Spanish and Portuguese, mainly Portuguese, but 0% Italian.

    How well can 23andMe distinguish Iberian and Northern Italian?
    I think this one of those cases where a brazilian wants to claim some kind of italian heritage so badly... at least that's my perception that a lot of brazilians want to claim italian, german, or dutch heritage.
    Y-DNA R1a>>R-Z93>>R-Z2122>R-Y57
    João Francisco (b. mid-1600s) in Prazins (Sta. Eufémia), Guimarães, Portugal

    mtDNA H7a
    Antónia Luísa da Silva (b. early 1700s) in Garfe, Póvoa de Lanhoso, Portugal

    Paper trail: 98.39% [Braga District, Portugal; breakdown by Municipality ->38.71% (Póvoa de Lanhoso) + 37.10% (Guimarães) + 6.45% (Braga) + 1.61% (Amares) + 14.52% (Unknown)] + 1.61% (Rio de Janeiro, Brazil)

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Hrodric For This Useful Post:

     Luso (11-01-2022)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-21-2020, 05:42 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-23-2020, 02:46 AM
  3. Replies: 97
    Last Post: 07-19-2019, 04:32 PM
  4. Replies: 35
    Last Post: 05-18-2018, 05:22 PM
  5. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-14-2018, 01:49 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •