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Thread: Punic people and modern North africans

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    Punic people and modern North africans

    Hello everyone , I was looking at some Punic samples and it caught my attention that these ones did not show much ancestry they showed more mixture with Sicani or Greeks instead of Levantina and I would like to ask if it can be said that if we can take this as the average of Carthage and Roman Africa and whether modern North africans share a majority of ancestry with Punics

    https://i.ibb.co/2M6hYfD/1.jpg

    https://i.ibb.co/pdSHzrr/2.jpg

    https://i.ibb.co/HGVz4LQ/3.jpg

    https://i.ibb.co/DwZGMqD/4.jpg

    This study shows average North African populations

    https://i.ibb.co/pbycs96/capture.png

    https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article...lementary-data

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    One question that sicani that the punics had, is it because of the proximity to Italy or some colonization?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lorddraco14 View Post
    One question that sicani that the punics had, is it because of the proximity to Italy or some colonization?
    Carthage only took western sicily , which is not where the sicani lived....most likely they traded with the sicani

    eastern sicliy went under the corinthians


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    Why is there no sample very mixed with North Africa in the Sicani then? It is interesting that they left more impact than the Phoenicians

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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    Carthage only took western sicily , which is not where the sicani lived....most likely they traded with the sicani

    eastern sicliy went under the corinthians
    I think you confuse sicani with sicels and as for the latter it didn't prevent some of them from migrating to Tunisia :

    The migration of the Siceliotes to Africa appears to be politically motivated. It begun under Agathocles, it seems to intensify after the First Punic War, although it appears extremely difficult, if not impossible, a quantification of the phenomenon. Certainly the more than five hundred horsemen present in the Carthaginian ranks during Agathocles' African campaign constitute a substantial number, an iceberg of which Hippocrates and Epicides represent only the tip. A similar phenomenon may also have occurred for other, mainly mercantile, reasons. But on this aspect the evidence appear very scarce. In any case, from the end of the fourth century BCE, Carthage, previously considered the enemy par excellence of Western Greekness, became for some Siceliotes a land of asylum.
    Emilio Galvagno, Sicelioti in Africa nel III secolo a.C., Africa romana, XVI, pp. 258

    Also I'm not really familiar with the subject but I'd be quite surprised if sicels/sicani were genetically distinct.

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    The punic samples mixed with sicani are even before the events that Galvagno mentions, but if more political commercial reasons seem to be the reason

    Any ideas for the Etruscans or is it vahaduo?

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    do you have the G25 coordinates of the punic samples ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    Carthage only took western sicily , which is not where the sicani lived....most likely they traded with the sicani

    eastern sicliy went under the corinthians
    Carthage came to control central Sicily where the Sicani lived but it may also be that they have Elymian ancestry and these are not different from the Sicani

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...raphic_map.svg

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...age_323_BC.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itrane2000 View Post
    do you have the G25 coordinates of the punic samples ?
    Here are the samples

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post855429
    Last edited by lorddraco14; 11-09-2022 at 12:15 PM.

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