Page 1 of 13 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 125

Thread: A possible way to differentiate between Adnanite and Qahtanite-descended Arabs?

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    128
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Maghrebi
    Nationality
    Tunisian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2a-L24

    Question A possible way to differentiate between Adnanite and Qahtanite-descended Arabs?

    Someone from another forum has shown me this method.
    Apparently, if you model with neolithic ancestry at x0.5 ADC, Arabs with adnanite ancestry will shift towards ISR_N while those with Qahtanite ancestry will shift towards Jor_N.
    Also seems applicable to a lesser extent to other populations.
    What are your thoughts on this?
    https://i.4cdn.org/his/1669401590757972.png
    Last edited by Administrator; 12-19-2022 at 10:21 PM. Reason: Title grammar correction only
    Target: Me_Scaled
    Distance: 1.4979% / 0.01497922 | R4P
    34.4 Berber_MAR_TIZ
    32.4 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
    23.2 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    10.0 Gambian

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to J2tunisian For This Useful Post:

     Piquerobi (11-29-2022)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    578
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    North Africa
    Nationality
    French
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-M183
    mtDNA (M)
    H1

    France Morocco Occitania
    Quote Originally Posted by J2tunisian View Post
    Someone from another forum has shown me this method.
    Apparently, if you model with neolithic ancestry at x0.5 ADC, Arabs with adnanite ancestry will shift towards ISR_N while those with Qahtanite ancestry will shift towards Jor_N.
    Also seems applicable to a lesser extent to other populations.
    What are your thoughts on this?
    https://i.4cdn.org/his/1669401590757972.png
    this is just Arabian mythology. Nothing to do with reality.
    Here is a map for Arabians (made with Kmean algorithms)
    We can see that they have split in 2 directions:
    1st direction : toward iranians
    2nd direction: toward levantine (what you call adnanite).
    Only one group seems to remains "pure arabians".
    Arab cluster.jpeg

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Itrane2000 For This Useful Post:

     FaerieQueene (12-23-2022)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    128
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Maghrebi
    Nationality
    Tunisian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2a-L24

    Quote Originally Posted by Itrane2000 View Post
    this is just Arabian mythology. Nothing to do with reality.
    Here is a map for Arabians (made with Kmean algorithms)
    We can see that they have split in 2 directions:
    1st direction : toward iranians
    2nd direction: toward levantine (what you call adnanite).
    Only one group seems to remains "pure arabians".
    Arab cluster.jpeg
    What explains this drift then? Obviously, I don't assume the component causing this is solely Arabian in Nature, but I further tested this using the Kuwaiti Awazam sample, Hilayli and Sulaym samples from NA, the Otaibah sample from SA, all of whom have Adnanite, and a Morisco sample from Grenada that's suspected to be from the Banu Al-Ahmar who claim Ansari (Yemeni) ancestry. The drift seems to consistently align with Yemeni/Adnanite lineages.
    I find the idea that all Arabs are descended from 2 people a bit unbelievable myself, what I am suggesting rather is the possibility of the existence of a distinct genetic marker for pre-Nabtean peoples in Arabia or more simply "South Arabians".
    Target: Me_Scaled
    Distance: 1.4979% / 0.01497922 | R4P
    34.4 Berber_MAR_TIZ
    32.4 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
    23.2 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    10.0 Gambian

  6. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    298
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Somali
    Y-DNA (P)
    E1b1b1a1a2

    Geography is key here not the patriarchal ancestor of the clan. Tribes that live in close proximity to each other will have more things akin like genetics regardless whether they ascribe themselves to Qathan or Adnan. You won’t even know who is who when you go to Saudi Arabia unless they told you.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Bulletproofpride For This Useful Post:

     Itrane2000 (12-19-2022)

  8. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    128
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Maghrebi
    Nationality
    Tunisian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2a-L24

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride View Post
    Geography is key here not the patriarchal ancestor of the clan. Tribes that live in close proximity to each other will have more things akin like genetics regardless whether they ascribe themselves to Qathan or Adnan. You won’t even know who is who when you go to Saudi Arabia unless they told you.
    I'm sure it's a big factor, but no doubt endogamy is also something to consider. BedouinB is in the levant to give one example.
    Target: Me_Scaled
    Distance: 1.4979% / 0.01497922 | R4P
    34.4 Berber_MAR_TIZ
    32.4 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
    23.2 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    10.0 Gambian

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to J2tunisian For This Useful Post:

     Bulletproofpride (12-19-2022)

  10. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    298
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Somali
    Y-DNA (P)
    E1b1b1a1a2

    Quote Originally Posted by J2tunisian View Post
    I'm sure it's a big factor, but no doubt endogamy is also something to consider. BedouinB is in the levant to give one example.
    Aren’t the desert regions of the Levant , Sinai etc generally considered to be an extension of the Arabian desert? Where exactly was Bedouin b located again? There are Bedouins groups that have spilled over into southern
    Persia/Baluchistan via the strait of hormuz and the eastern desert of Sudan, Eritrea. They do practice endogamy like you said but it’s hard differentiating between the two groups solely based on Qathan or Adnan.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Bulletproofpride For This Useful Post:

     dany198124 (01-21-2023)

  12. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    128
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Maghrebi
    Nationality
    Tunisian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2a-L24

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride View Post
    Aren’t the desert regions of the Levant , Sinai etc generally considered to be an extension of the Arabian desert? Where exactly was Bedouin b located again? There are Bedouins groups that have spilled over into southern
    Persia/Baluchistan via the strait of hormuz and the eastern desert of Sudan, Eritrea. They do practice endogamy like you said but it’s hard differentiating between the two groups solely based on Qathan or Adnan.
    They are Palestinians from the Negev desert. Their lineages supposedly go back to Yemenite tribes. Some even trace their migration (and that of the Sinai bedouins) to the semi-mythological collapse of Ma'arib dam.
    Target: Me_Scaled
    Distance: 1.4979% / 0.01497922 | R4P
    34.4 Berber_MAR_TIZ
    32.4 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
    23.2 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    10.0 Gambian

  13. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    298
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Somali
    Y-DNA (P)
    E1b1b1a1a2

    Quote Originally Posted by J2tunisian View Post
    They are Palestinians from the Negev desert. Their lineages supposedly go back to Yemenite tribes. Some even trace their migration (and that of the Sinai bedouins) to the semi-mythological collapse of Ma'arib dam.
    The Negev Bedouins are Arabs with origins in the peninsula.

    Why do you consider the collapse of the dam to be semi mythical? The Marib dam is recorded to have been constructed and repaired several times by different rulers throughout its existence. Several South Arabian records attest to that. Yemen is known for many ancient dams some of whom are more than 3500 years old. The final major collapse of the Marib dam is believed to have occurred by many scholar’s around the year 145 BC so it’s not even that ancient for it to be mythical. The dam would have given them water and sustenance and without it tribes would migrate northwards towards the Fertile Crescent as most of Arabia excluding the southwest and Hejaz is inhospitable.
    Last edited by Bulletproofpride; 12-19-2022 at 06:40 PM.

  14. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    578
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    North Africa
    Nationality
    French
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-M183
    mtDNA (M)
    H1

    France Morocco Occitania
    Quote Originally Posted by J2tunisian View Post
    What explains this drift then?
    The admixture from neighboors like all humans.


    Quote Originally Posted by J2tunisian View Post
    Obviously, I don't assume the component causing this is solely Arabian in Nature, but I further tested this using the Kuwaiti Awazam sample, Hilayli and Sulaym samples from NA, the Otaibah sample from SA, all of whom have Adnanite, and a Morisco sample from Grenada that's suspected to be from the Banu Al-Ahmar who claim Ansari (Yemeni) ancestry.
    What are you talking about ? autosomal or haplogroup ?
    because regarding the map I have uploaded it is autosomal cluster.
    The Kuwaiti, the Hilali and Sulaym, the Morisco, all them do not belong to Arabian cluster.
    please if you want to talk, provide some data.


    Quote Originally Posted by J2tunisian View Post
    The drift seems to consistently align with Yemeni/Adnanite lineages.
    I don't understand what you are talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by J2tunisian View Post
    I find the idea that all Arabs are descended from 2 people a bit unbelievable myself, what I am suggesting rather is the possibility of the existence of a distinct genetic marker for pre-Nabtean peoples in Arabia or more simply "South Arabians".
    we will never know if we don't find some buried samples. for the moment, we can clealy identify an arabian cluster, for sure this cluster itself may be a mix of different origins
    Last edited by Itrane2000; 12-19-2022 at 07:11 PM.

  15. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    578
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    North Africa
    Nationality
    French
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-M183
    mtDNA (M)
    H1

    France Morocco Occitania
    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride View Post
    Geography is key here not the patriarchal ancestor of the clan. Tribes that live in close proximity to each other will have more things akin like genetics regardless whether they ascribe themselves to Qathan or Adnan. You won’t even know who is who when you go to Saudi Arabia unless they told you.
    This disctinction "Adnanites" vs "qahtanites" is more folkloric than cultural or ethnic.

  16. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Itrane2000 For This Useful Post:

     drobbah (12-19-2022),  FaerieQueene (12-23-2022),  xenus (12-24-2022)

Page 1 of 13 12311 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Arabs ran against Emirati A
    By Gentica277282 in forum Western
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 12-26-2022, 02:14 AM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-26-2021, 09:02 AM
  3. Trying to differentiate NW Europeans - G25 - Unscaled
    By sktibo in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 237
    Last Post: 12-21-2020, 03:15 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-07-2017, 01:21 PM
  5. arabs in the maghreb (maghrebi arabs) from Hilalians and banu maqil invasion ?
    By dark-mysterio in forum General Sociology/Ethnology
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 12-29-2016, 02:21 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •