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Thread: New MyOrigins Map and Holes in the Pedigree

  1. #1
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    Smile New MyOrigins Map and Holes in the Pedigree

    Here is my new MyOrigins map from FTDNA based on my Family Finder results, with a few clarifying additions by me.

    MyOrigins 19 June 2014.jpg

    I have mentioned this before, but what catches my eye is the fact that my continental European percentage is higher than my Isles percentage, despite the fact that most of the surnames in my pedigree that I know about are of British Isles origin. I do have one French line and one Dutch line on my father's side that I know about, but both of those married into Isles families enroute to me.

    There are plenty of holes in the pedigrees on both my mother's and father's sides, though, and my father is from Louisiana. I'm guessing there may be a few more French lines on his side that I don't yet know about.

    Please feel free to post your MyOrigins map in this thread and discuss it.

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    What reference population is used for their British Isles cluster?
    Paternal - Y-DNA: J2b2* (J-M241) Z2432+ Z2433+ Y978+ (J2b2a2b1*) (Hidden Content ) (YFull: YF02959) (FTDNA Kit B6225), mtDNA: M18a* (FTDNA Kit 329180) (YFull: YF63773)
    Maternal- Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2d5a* L657+ Y7+ (R-Y16494*) (FTDNA Kit 311047) (YFull: YF68408), mtDNA: Hidden Content (FTDNA Kit B6225) (YFull: YF02959) (Mother's Mother's Father: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2* Y7+ Y29+ (R-Y29*) (FTDNA Kit 329181) (YFull: YF65256))

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_McNinja View Post
    What reference population is used for their British Isles cluster?
    British, Irish and Scottish I think.

    These components are defined by most drifted populations so the British Isles is going to peak in Irish, and close populations like British are going to get other related components.

    It's a bit like what happens in the admixture run below. When moving to K=8 both a Finnish component (red, reaching 100% in some Finns) and an Irish component (light green, reaches 100% in some Irish) appear. However, only some (the most drifted) individuals get 100% and others from those population groups, never mind others, still get components that "formed" the new component.


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    As soon as mine comes in in the next few weeks I'll be sure to share!
     
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    Something similar happened with my results with regard to a British Isles score except mine is more extreme. Got 100% Western & Central European, and 0% British Isles. At 23andMe I'm 52.3% British & Irish (McDonald has me at near the same percentage, but as English as opposed to the conjoined "British & Irish"), and what 23andMe & McDonald yield is consistent with "family history" but that does not necessarily mean that FTDNA's result is not relevant.

    If I had to guess the deviation could be the result of the "scope" of each test. 23andMe is attempting to infer origins within the last 500 years which includes the time frame of "family histories". Judging by the way the population descriptions were worded FTDNA's MyOrigins seems to try at looking beyond 500 years and the time of "family histories" into the realm of "deeper" ancestry and as such might not precisely mirror "family histories".

    A simple/conservative speculation: The British Isles and Western & Central European components are closely related so discerning them precisely could be problematic for those mixed between the British, Irish & Germans.

    A more liberal speculation:
    The population description for British Isles states that it is especially typical of Ireland, in addition to having a presence as far South as the Azores, so I would wager that the British Isles component at FTDNA is attempting to reveal connections to early settlers of the Isles that would have become more distinct from their relatives that remained behind on the Continent (maybe due to a degree of isolation). I take it then that I just don't seem to be noticeably derived from these earlier settlers of the Isles.

    If the wording was chosen precisely for the descriptions, then the use of the word "antiquity" with regards to the French & Germans implies a period before the 5th Century A.D. and would apply to the predecessors of groups like the Gauls, Belgae, Cimbri, Tungri, Teutones, and others spoken of by Julius Caesar and Tacitus. The predecessors of these groups would have a degree of relevance to not only the French & Germans but to some of the settlers of the Isles which would again make discerning the precise mixture of someone mixed between the folk of the Isles and Germans problematic.

    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Here is my new MyOrigins map from FTDNA based on my Family Finder results, with a few clarifying additions by me.

    MyOrigins 19 June 2014.jpg

    I have mentioned this before, but what catches my eye is the fact that my continental European percentage is higher than my Isles percentage, despite the fact that most of the surnames in my pedigree that I know about are of British Isles origin. I do have one French line and one Dutch line on my father's side that I know about, but both of those married into Isles families enroute to me.

    There are plenty of holes in the pedigrees on both my mother's and father's sides, though, and my father is from Louisiana. I'm guessing there may be a few more French lines on his side that I don't yet know about.

    Please feel free to post your MyOrigins map in this thread and discuss it.
    Last edited by Telfermagne; 06-19-2014 at 06:16 PM.

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    My Family Finder result is: 99% European; 1% S. Asian. That breaks down into: 92% Isles; 7% Northern France and lowlands. The 1% has Azerbaijan circled as most probable. Based on my haplotype and heritage, I would guess that I am of native Briton stock. My mother was born near Ayr, Scotland and her mother was from Ireland. I suspect that my ancestors have been in the Isles since ??.

    The 7% Brittany may make sense due to the fact that many native Britons immigrated there c. 500 AD, after the invasion of the Scottis from Ireland? On an STR/TMRCA basis I mate up with one or two persons (Billingslea/y , Sammons) c. 1K to 2K BC.

    edit: Another reason for the 7% w. Europe, may be that my adna contains scotti genes? My last three maternal contributions are: Hunter, Lindsay, Armstrong
    Last edited by mcg11; 06-19-2014 at 07:00 PM. Reason: elaborate on ideas

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  12. #7
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    In my analysis of the scottis, I believe they are predominantly the descendants of Belgic Tribes who were displaced by the Romans. It would seem to suggest that the Scottis may not be identified as Isles people? Possibly also those of Pictish origin? As I believe they were displaced from broader regions of gaul, including present day Brittany. The Scottis usually have 10/11 for 391/ 385a whereas the Picts are 11,11. I think the Scottis source out to the La Tene culture and the Picts to the Hallstadt culture.

    If any of this makes sense, then FtDNA is saying the Scotti's and Pict's are not Island folks? It is going to be interesting to watch what happens!
    Last edited by mcg11; 06-19-2014 at 10:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikorth View Post
    British, Irish and Scottish I think.

    These components are defined by most drifted populations so the British Isles is going to peak in Irish, and close populations like British are going to get other related components.

    It's a bit like what happens in the admixture run below. When moving to K=8 both a Finnish component (red, reaching 100% in some Finns) and an Irish component (light green, reaches 100% in some Irish) appear. However, only some (the most drifted) individuals get 100% and others from those population groups, never mind others, still get components that "formed" the new component.

    Yup, most British people will get mostly Northwestern Europe (here identified as "Western and Central Europe") and Atlantic/Mediterranean (here identified as "British Isles"). The ratio can indicate whether your ancestry leans further to the west and north (Ireland, Scotland) or south and east (Kent, representing Germanic influence in England).
    Paternal - Y-DNA: J2b2* (J-M241) Z2432+ Z2433+ Y978+ (J2b2a2b1*) (Hidden Content ) (YFull: YF02959) (FTDNA Kit B6225), mtDNA: M18a* (FTDNA Kit 329180) (YFull: YF63773)
    Maternal- Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2d5a* L657+ Y7+ (R-Y16494*) (FTDNA Kit 311047) (YFull: YF68408), mtDNA: Hidden Content (FTDNA Kit B6225) (YFull: YF02959) (Mother's Mother's Father: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2* Y7+ Y29+ (R-Y29*) (FTDNA Kit 329181) (YFull: YF65256))

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    rms2 I'm copying you and putting my haplogroups (brother's for the Y) on my map. Plus the very few pins for my matches most distant ancestors. My known ancestry is Colonial American (Dutch, German), Arbėreshė from Calabria region of Italy on my mother's side. Father's side, Rusyns from eastern Slovakia, Polish and Lithuanian. My father and his father also said there was Mongolian in this branch. Funny that they would say that and not that we had been Jewish! LOL!

    Updated myOrigins.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Telfermagne View Post
    A simple/conservative speculation: The British Isles and Western & Central European components are closely related so discerning them precisely could be problematic for those mixed between the British, Irish & Germans.
    That's very true. My mother's 82% Isles / 18% West-Central Europe seems slightly biased towards the continent, since the expected ratio is about 90:10 -- but from other evidence it appears she happens to have inherited more than average from her French, German, and Dutch lines. No need to ascribe to NPEs what you can write down to the vagaries of recombination.

    One thing I liked about the old system though was the margins of error helped you create a larger area. Confidence intervals in statistics are at least as important as point estimates. I have a feeling most people want a single spot on the map, but unless you come from a single village or region, this doesn't work too well. Most colonial Americans end up in the English Channel.
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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