Ancient Egypt, Sudan, North Africa? Will there be any results from these areas?

**Ignis90** · 03-18-2023, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by lorddraco14

Would this local population to Northeast Africa have a similar Natufian origin or do they only appear to be similar due to missing more ancient samples from Egypt?

One can assume that at least part of it, even if just a minority by the Neolithic, is not Natufian proper or even particularly close to Natufian, as it's bound to carry much older Eurasian layers, as seen with the Iberomaurusian culture (itself potentially as old as 20000 years BP).

**drobbah** · 03-18-2023, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ignis90

One can assume that at least part of it, even if just a minority by the Neolithic, is not Natufian proper or even particularly close to Natufian, as it's bound to carry much older Eurasian layers, as seen with the Iberomaurusian culture (itself potentially as old as 20000 years BP).

Egypt/N.Sudan would have been a place where many divergent ancestries meet so not only older Eurasian layers probably existed but also older African layers like ancestry from the East-South Africa HG cline that doesn't exist in either modern Egypt/Sudan today

The Kadruka sample in Sudan from 2000 BCE was mostly identical to the Early Pastoral samples of the same period despite being 1500 kms away.Considering the Early Pastorals were 25% local Ethio & Kenyan HG ancestry admixed this seems to suggest this ancestry once thought to be restricted in the Horn was once extended farther North than we thought. The L0f Horner/SE African HG maternal lineage found in one of those BA Levant samples (I think it was a Baqah individual) and the idea that Natufians also seem to have minor ancestry from a Horner HG type group might support this East-South HG cline once existing in NE Africa

I tried creating a sim for the West Eurasian side of the Early Pastoralists:

Code:

Target: Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
Distance: 18.1712% / 0.18171223
48.6	Anatolian_HG
38.2	Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)
10.8	Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_(CHG)
2.4	Ethiopia_4500BP

Target: Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I0861
Distance: 15.9081% / 0.15908146
56.6	Anatolian_HG
34.2	Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)
8.8	Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_(CHG)
0.4	Ethiopia_4500BP

Target: Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I1072
Distance: 15.2121% / 0.15212103
66.4	Anatolian_HG
33.6	Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)

**Gentica277282** · 03-18-2023, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Egypt/N.Sudan would have been a place where many divergent ancestries meet so not only older Eurasian layers probably existed but also older African layers like ancestry from the East-South Africa HG cline that doesn't exist in either modern Egypt/Sudan today

The Kadruka sample in Sudan from 2000 BCE was mostly identical to the Early Pastoral samples of the same period despite being 1500 kms away.Considering the Early Pastorals were 25% local Ethio & Kenyan HG ancestry admixed this seems to suggest this ancestry once thought to be restricted in the Horn was once extended farther North than we thought. The L0f Horner/SE African HG maternal lineage found in one of those BA Levant samples (I think it was a Baqah individual) and the idea that Natufians also seem to have minor ancestry from a Horner HG type group might support this East-South HG cline once existing in NE Africa

I tried creating a sim for the West Eurasian side of the Early Pastoralists:

Code:

Target: Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
Distance: 18.1712% / 0.18171223
48.6	Anatolian_HG
38.2	Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)
10.8	Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_(CHG)
2.4	Ethiopia_4500BP

Target: Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I0861
Distance: 15.9081% / 0.15908146
56.6	Anatolian_HG
34.2	Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)
8.8	Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_(CHG)
0.4	Ethiopia_4500BP

Target: Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I1072
Distance: 15.2121% / 0.15212103
66.4	Anatolian_HG
33.6	Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)

Do you mind posting this sim khoya

**drobbah** · 03-18-2023, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Gentica277282

Do you mind posting this sim khoya

Code:

Target: Drobbah
Distance: 2.2081% / 0.02208068
50.8	South_Sudanese
46.6	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
1.6	Kenya_LSA
1.0	Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)


Target: Nubian_Halfawi
Distance: 1.7092% / 0.01709246
36.8	South_Sudanese
23.4	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
18.6	Levant_Natufian_EpiP
10.8	Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin
10.4	Iran_N

Target: Levant_IAIII_Beirut_o_(Egyptian_Profile)
Distance: 4.0515% / 0.04051540
44.8	Levant_Natufian_EpiP
23.2	Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin
20.2	Iran_N
10.4	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
1.4	South_Sudanese

Target: Samaritan
Distance: 3.9532% / 0.03953196
39.4	Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin
30.6	Iran_N
27.2	Levant_Natufian_EpiP
2.8	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)


Target: Yemeni_Mahra
Distance: 5.3150% / 0.05315000
74.6	Levant_Natufian_EpiP
21.4	Iran_N
4.0	Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin

**capsian** · 03-18-2023, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Code:

Target: Drobbah
Distance: 2.2081% / 0.02208068
50.8	South_Sudanese
46.6	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
1.6	Kenya_LSA
1.0	Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)


Target: Nubian_Halfawi
Distance: 1.7092% / 0.01709246
36.8	South_Sudanese
23.4	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
18.6	Levant_Natufian_EpiP
10.8	Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin
10.4	Iran_N

Target: Levant_IAIII_Beirut_o_(Egyptian_Profile)
Distance: 4.0515% / 0.04051540
44.8	Levant_Natufian_EpiP
23.2	Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin
20.2	Iran_N
10.4	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
1.4	South_Sudanese

Target: Samaritan
Distance: 3.9532% / 0.03953196
39.4	Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin
30.6	Iran_N
27.2	Levant_Natufian_EpiP
2.8	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)


Target: Yemeni_Mahra
Distance: 5.3150% / 0.05315000
74.6	Levant_Natufian_EpiP
21.4	Iran_N
4.0	Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin

What does Cushitic_Eurasian mean ? Is it Pre-Mixed with Mota and Dinka ?

**drobbah** · 03-18-2023, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by capsian

What does Cushitic_Eurasian mean ? Is it Pre-Mixed with Mota and Dinka ?

It's the MENA ancestry of the Early Pastoralists.It has heavy Taforalt-like ancestry (~40%)

**capsian** · 03-18-2023, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

It's the MENA ancestry of the Early Pastoralists.It has heavy Taforalt-like ancestry (~40%)

interesting , was have bit Admixture Mota

**lorddraco14** · 03-18-2023, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Ignis90

One can assume that at least part of it, even if just a minority by the Neolithic, is not Natufian proper or even particularly close to Natufian, as it's bound to carry much older Eurasian layers, as seen with the Iberomaurusian culture (itself potentially as old as 20000 years BP).

So the origin of the Egyptians is in the mixture of a local population to Northeast Africa (what you say of an older Eurasian layers population) and a population of similar descent to Levant Natufian ?

**afbarwaaqo** · 03-18-2023, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

It's the MENA ancestry of the Early Pastoralists.It has heavy Taforalt-like ancestry (~40%)

are modern somalis and other horners eurasian ancestry a combination of this cushitic_eurasian sample and levant_ba?

**Gentica277282** · 03-18-2023, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by afbarwaaqo

are modern somalis and other horners eurasian ancestry a combination of this cushitic_eurasian sample and levant_ba?

Most likely, it looks like Moroccan Arabs are a mixture of early Bronze Age Levantine and North African with ssa ancestry

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