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Thread: Ancient Egypt, Sudan, North Africa? Will there be any results from these areas?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorddraco14 View Post
    Would this local population to Northeast Africa have a similar Natufian origin or do they only appear to be similar due to missing more ancient samples from Egypt?
    One can assume that at least part of it, even if just a minority by the Neolithic, is not Natufian proper or even particularly close to Natufian, as it's bound to carry much older Eurasian layers, as seen with the Iberomaurusian culture (itself potentially as old as 20000 years BP).
    Paternal Y-DNA haplogroup: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183
    Maternal [grandfather] Y-DNA: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183>PF2477>PF2546
    >Mz90>PF6794>PF6789
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    (my mother's LP: same results)

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignis90 View Post
    One can assume that at least part of it, even if just a minority by the Neolithic, is not Natufian proper or even particularly close to Natufian, as it's bound to carry much older Eurasian layers, as seen with the Iberomaurusian culture (itself potentially as old as 20000 years BP).
    Egypt/N.Sudan would have been a place where many divergent ancestries meet so not only older Eurasian layers probably existed but also older African layers like ancestry from the East-South Africa HG cline that doesn't exist in either modern Egypt/Sudan today

    The Kadruka sample in Sudan from 2000 BCE was mostly identical to the Early Pastoral samples of the same period despite being 1500 kms away.Considering the Early Pastorals were 25% local Ethio & Kenyan HG ancestry admixed this seems to suggest this ancestry once thought to be restricted in the Horn was once extended farther North than we thought. The L0f Horner/SE African HG maternal lineage found in one of those BA Levant samples (I think it was a Baqah individual) and the idea that Natufians also seem to have minor ancestry from a Horner HG type group might support this East-South HG cline once existing in NE Africa



    I tried creating a sim for the West Eurasian side of the Early Pastoralists:

     
    Code:
    Distance to:	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
    0.10589716	Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I0861
    0.12065344	Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I1072
    0.12928884	Levant_PPNB:BAJ001
    0.13498590	Yemenite_Dhamar
    0.13571190	Tunisian_Rbaya
    0.13590046	Yemenite_Mahra
    0.13622338	Yemenite_Al_Bayda
    0.13665512	Yemenite_Ma'rib
    0.13841018	Yemenite_Al_Jawf
    0.14028800	BedouinB
    0.14079368	Levant_Beirut_IAIII_Egyptian:SFI-43
    0.14184745	EGY_Late_Period:JK2134
    0.14256602	SaudiB
    0.14421934	Yemenite_Jew
    0.14432083	EGY_Hellenistic_contam:JK2888
    0.14500596	EGY_Late_Period:JK2911
    0.14571980	Levant_Tell_Qarassa_Early_Antiquity:syr005
    0.14629180	Yemenite_Amran
    0.14817257	Saudi
    0.14822601	TUR_Marmara_Iznik_Basilica_RomByz_B:I8372
    0.15239343	Levant_PPNB:I1700
    0.15409736	Egyptian
    0.15508171	Levant_PPNC:I1699
    0.15543580	Levant_Beirut_IAIII_Egyptian:SFI-44
    0.15553665	Levant_PPNB:I1414
    0.15613777	Levant_Tell_Qarassa_Early_Antiquity:syr013
    0.15615405	England_Roman_Near_Eastern_o:3DT26
    0.15619844	Levant_PPNB_contam:I1704
    0.15631850	Levant_PPNB:I1707
    0.15701552	Levant_SYR_Tell_Masaikh:R3361



    Code:
    Target: Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
    Distance: 18.1712% / 0.18171223
    48.6	Anatolian_HG
    38.2	Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)
    10.8	Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_(CHG)
    2.4	Ethiopia_4500BP
    
    Target: Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I0861
    Distance: 15.9081% / 0.15908146
    56.6	Anatolian_HG
    34.2	Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)
    8.8	Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_(CHG)
    0.4	Ethiopia_4500BP
    
    Target: Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I1072
    Distance: 15.2121% / 0.15212103
    66.4	Anatolian_HG
    33.6	Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)
    Code:
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 2.0589% / 0.02058915
    92.6	Cushitic
    7.4	Arabian
    
    Target: Child-sim
    Distance: 0.6383% / 0.00638337
    44.8	Berber
    43.4	Cushitic
    7.6	Arabian
    3.2	Iberian
    1.0	West_African

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  5. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Egypt/N.Sudan would have been a place where many divergent ancestries meet so not only older Eurasian layers probably existed but also older African layers like ancestry from the East-South Africa HG cline that doesn't exist in either modern Egypt/Sudan today

    The Kadruka sample in Sudan from 2000 BCE was mostly identical to the Early Pastoral samples of the same period despite being 1500 kms away.Considering the Early Pastorals were 25% local Ethio & Kenyan HG ancestry admixed this seems to suggest this ancestry once thought to be restricted in the Horn was once extended farther North than we thought. The L0f Horner/SE African HG maternal lineage found in one of those BA Levant samples (I think it was a Baqah individual) and the idea that Natufians also seem to have minor ancestry from a Horner HG type group might support this East-South HG cline once existing in NE Africa



    I tried creating a sim for the West Eurasian side of the Early Pastoralists:

     
    Code:
    Distance to:	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
    0.10589716	Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I0861
    0.12065344	Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I1072
    0.12928884	Levant_PPNB:BAJ001
    0.13498590	Yemenite_Dhamar
    0.13571190	Tunisian_Rbaya
    0.13590046	Yemenite_Mahra
    0.13622338	Yemenite_Al_Bayda
    0.13665512	Yemenite_Ma'rib
    0.13841018	Yemenite_Al_Jawf
    0.14028800	BedouinB
    0.14079368	Levant_Beirut_IAIII_Egyptian:SFI-43
    0.14184745	EGY_Late_Period:JK2134
    0.14256602	SaudiB
    0.14421934	Yemenite_Jew
    0.14432083	EGY_Hellenistic_contam:JK2888
    0.14500596	EGY_Late_Period:JK2911
    0.14571980	Levant_Tell_Qarassa_Early_Antiquity:syr005
    0.14629180	Yemenite_Amran
    0.14817257	Saudi
    0.14822601	TUR_Marmara_Iznik_Basilica_RomByz_B:I8372
    0.15239343	Levant_PPNB:I1700
    0.15409736	Egyptian
    0.15508171	Levant_PPNC:I1699
    0.15543580	Levant_Beirut_IAIII_Egyptian:SFI-44
    0.15553665	Levant_PPNB:I1414
    0.15613777	Levant_Tell_Qarassa_Early_Antiquity:syr013
    0.15615405	England_Roman_Near_Eastern_o:3DT26
    0.15619844	Levant_PPNB_contam:I1704
    0.15631850	Levant_PPNB:I1707
    0.15701552	Levant_SYR_Tell_Masaikh:R3361



    Code:
    Target: Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
    Distance: 18.1712% / 0.18171223
    48.6	Anatolian_HG
    38.2	Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)
    10.8	Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_(CHG)
    2.4	Ethiopia_4500BP
    
    Target: Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I0861
    Distance: 15.9081% / 0.15908146
    56.6	Anatolian_HG
    34.2	Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)
    8.8	Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_(CHG)
    0.4	Ethiopia_4500BP
    
    Target: Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I1072
    Distance: 15.2121% / 0.15212103
    66.4	Anatolian_HG
    33.6	Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)
    Do you mind posting this sim khoya
    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.5221% / 0.01522148
    32.8 TUN_Kerkouane_IA
    30.2 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    28.0 Levant_Sidon_MBA
    9.0 COG_NgongoMbata_220BP

    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.3635% / 0.01363470 | R5P
    71.6 Tunisian_Berber_Tamezret
    10.2 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
    9.4 Yemenite_Mahra
    5.0 Yoruba
    3.8 Bantu_Kenya

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  7. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    Do you mind posting this sim khoya
     
    Code:
    Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated),0.00467878,0.14601094,-0.06239246,-0.14105229,0.00630894,-0.07083817,-0.02648373,-0.00424384,0.147933,-0.05491417,0.01301356,-0.03462378,0.04151284,0.0036926,0.03220716,-0.00891322,0.01575761,-0.00738282,-0.01002116,0.01422571,-0.00202022,0.00417289,0.00936744,0.00087696,0.00432461


    Code:
    Target: Drobbah
    Distance: 2.2081% / 0.02208068
    50.8	South_Sudanese
    46.6	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
    1.6	Kenya_LSA
    1.0	Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)
    
    
    Target: Nubian_Halfawi
    Distance: 1.7092% / 0.01709246
    36.8	South_Sudanese
    23.4	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
    18.6	Levant_Natufian_EpiP
    10.8	Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin
    10.4	Iran_N
    
    Target: Levant_IAIII_Beirut_o_(Egyptian_Profile)
    Distance: 4.0515% / 0.04051540
    44.8	Levant_Natufian_EpiP
    23.2	Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin
    20.2	Iran_N
    10.4	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
    1.4	South_Sudanese
    
    Target: Samaritan
    Distance: 3.9532% / 0.03953196
    39.4	Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin
    30.6	Iran_N
    27.2	Levant_Natufian_EpiP
    2.8	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
    
    
    Target: Yemeni_Mahra
    Distance: 5.3150% / 0.05315000
    74.6	Levant_Natufian_EpiP
    21.4	Iran_N
    4.0	Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin
    Code:
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 2.0589% / 0.02058915
    92.6	Cushitic
    7.4	Arabian
    
    Target: Child-sim
    Distance: 0.6383% / 0.00638337
    44.8	Berber
    43.4	Cushitic
    7.6	Arabian
    3.2	Iberian
    1.0	West_African

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  9. #45
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    aDNA Match (1st)
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
     
    Code:
    Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated),0.00467878,0.14601094,-0.06239246,-0.14105229,0.00630894,-0.07083817,-0.02648373,-0.00424384,0.147933,-0.05491417,0.01301356,-0.03462378,0.04151284,0.0036926,0.03220716,-0.00891322,0.01575761,-0.00738282,-0.01002116,0.01422571,-0.00202022,0.00417289,0.00936744,0.00087696,0.00432461


    Code:
    Target: Drobbah
    Distance: 2.2081% / 0.02208068
    50.8	South_Sudanese
    46.6	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
    1.6	Kenya_LSA
    1.0	Taforalt_(Iberomaurusian)
    
    
    Target: Nubian_Halfawi
    Distance: 1.7092% / 0.01709246
    36.8	South_Sudanese
    23.4	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
    18.6	Levant_Natufian_EpiP
    10.8	Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin
    10.4	Iran_N
    
    Target: Levant_IAIII_Beirut_o_(Egyptian_Profile)
    Distance: 4.0515% / 0.04051540
    44.8	Levant_Natufian_EpiP
    23.2	Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin
    20.2	Iran_N
    10.4	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
    1.4	South_Sudanese
    
    Target: Samaritan
    Distance: 3.9532% / 0.03953196
    39.4	Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin
    30.6	Iran_N
    27.2	Levant_Natufian_EpiP
    2.8	Cushitic_Eurasian-(Simulated)
    
    
    Target: Yemeni_Mahra
    Distance: 5.3150% / 0.05315000
    74.6	Levant_Natufian_EpiP
    21.4	Iran_N
    4.0	Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin
    What does Cushitic_Eurasian mean ? Is it Pre-Mixed with Mota and Dinka ?
    38.4 Mesolithic_North_Africa
    37.4 Anatolia_Barcin_Neolithic
    9.6 Levant_Natufian
    5.8 Caucasian_Neolithic
    4.6 Basal_Central/West_African
    2.2 West-Pontic_Steppe__Eneolithic_Sredny-Stog_Culture
    1.2 Wales_Meso
    0.4 CHN_Mid-Yellow-River_Mid-Neolithic_YangShao_Culture
    0.4 PER_LaGalgada_4100BP

    E-A30032 < A30480 TMRCA 1350 AD

  10. #46
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    Y-DNA (P)
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    Quote Originally Posted by capsian View Post
    What does Cushitic_Eurasian mean ? Is it Pre-Mixed with Mota and Dinka ?
    It's the MENA ancestry of the Early Pastoralists.It has heavy Taforalt-like ancestry (~40%)
    Code:
    Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled
    Distance: 2.0589% / 0.02058915
    92.6	Cushitic
    7.4	Arabian
    
    Target: Child-sim
    Distance: 0.6383% / 0.00638337
    44.8	Berber
    43.4	Cushitic
    7.6	Arabian
    3.2	Iberian
    1.0	West_African

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  12. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    It's the MENA ancestry of the Early Pastoralists.It has heavy Taforalt-like ancestry (~40%)
    interesting , was have bit Admixture Mota
    38.4 Mesolithic_North_Africa
    37.4 Anatolia_Barcin_Neolithic
    9.6 Levant_Natufian
    5.8 Caucasian_Neolithic
    4.6 Basal_Central/West_African
    2.2 West-Pontic_Steppe__Eneolithic_Sredny-Stog_Culture
    1.2 Wales_Meso
    0.4 CHN_Mid-Yellow-River_Mid-Neolithic_YangShao_Culture
    0.4 PER_LaGalgada_4100BP

    E-A30032 < A30480 TMRCA 1350 AD

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  14. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignis90 View Post
    One can assume that at least part of it, even if just a minority by the Neolithic, is not Natufian proper or even particularly close to Natufian, as it's bound to carry much older Eurasian layers, as seen with the Iberomaurusian culture (itself potentially as old as 20000 years BP).
    So the origin of the Egyptians is in the mixture of a local population to Northeast Africa (what you say of an older Eurasian layers population) and a population of similar descent to Levant Natufian ?

  15. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    It's the MENA ancestry of the Early Pastoralists.It has heavy Taforalt-like ancestry (~40%)
    are modern somalis and other horners eurasian ancestry a combination of this cushitic_eurasian sample and levant_ba?

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  17. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by afbarwaaqo View Post
    are modern somalis and other horners eurasian ancestry a combination of this cushitic_eurasian sample and levant_ba?
    Most likely, it looks like Moroccan Arabs are a mixture of early Bronze Age Levantine and North African with ssa ancestry
    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.5221% / 0.01522148
    32.8 TUN_Kerkouane_IA
    30.2 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    28.0 Levant_Sidon_MBA
    9.0 COG_NgongoMbata_220BP

    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.3635% / 0.01363470 | R5P
    71.6 Tunisian_Berber_Tamezret
    10.2 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
    9.4 Yemenite_Mahra
    5.0 Yoruba
    3.8 Bantu_Kenya

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