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Thread: Identity

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    215 million
    The big Portuguese immigration to Independent Brazil since 1822 was far bigger than the Portuguese Colonial movement in the conquest and colonization 1500-1800. in the 17/18th centuries almost 90% of the arrivals in Brazil were Africans, Brazil was the biggest slaver society, the first, the biggest and the last to bring people from Africa in big numbers.
    The % of Portuguese Y-DNA in Brazil = 75%. Almost all the Mestizo population with Portuguese surnames and a good part of the Black population.
    The % of 'white Portuguese' Y-DNA descendants in Brazil = 20%. Some admixture with other Euro immigrants
    The % of 'white Portuguese' Colonial Elite Y-DNA descendants in Brazil = 3%. Can have some minor admixture with other Euro immigrants and must have a small Amerindian and sometimes a very small African % as part of the ancient Brazilian founder genealogies.
    Portuguese mtDNA in Brazil = 20%
    Portuguese mtDNA Colonial Elite = 0,5%
    That it means that Portugal faced a depopulation or something?215 million sounds extreme i would say.My question is how many White Portuguese still exist in Brazil...not how many Brazilians do have some Portuguese 'ancestry/background/admixture' or whatever.There is no way 215 million people to be 100% White Portuguese there.They are obviously admixed with Mestizo,SSA folks etc.

  2. #52
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    Suebi Kingdom Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ Brazilian Empire Brazil
    The total population is 215 million
    Just read the proportions % of the total !
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
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    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
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  4. #53
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    Delete, nevermind I misread
    Last edited by Luso; 12-08-2022 at 01:22 AM.
    [1] "distance%=1.5901"

    Luso

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    My Paternal Lineage-

    My dad's father- R-Z225- São Bartolomeu de Messines, Silves, Portugal
    My dad's mother- H5a- Alcantarilha, Silves, Portugal


    Maternal Lineage-

    My mom's mother- H1c3- Monchique, Silves, Portugal
    My mom's father- G2a-Y65- Lagoa, Ferragudo, Portugal

  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    The total population is 215 million
    Just read the proportions % of the total !
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_people

  6. #55
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    Read the analysis of Robert Southey - History of Brazil in 1819:

    “However, a new breed of men was growing, wild, yes, and ungovernable, but one in whom the infusion of native American blood would soon result in a relentless increase in action and achievement. So while the Spaniards in Paraguay stayed where Irala had placed them, mostly treating with indifference the discoveries which the first Conquistadores had made, the Brazilians continued for two centuries to explore the country. These determined adventurers would spend months and months in the wild hunting slaves and looking for gold and silver, guided by what they had learnt from the native Americans. Eventually they managed to secure for themselves and the House of Braganza the richest mines and the largest territory in South America This acquisition was of all the inhabited earth the most beautiful part. “
    Brazil - Largest Portuguese-speaking country, largest country in South America, largest country in the Southern Hemisphere and the largest contiguous territory in the Americas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    Read the analysis of Robert Southey - History of Brazil in 1819:



    Brazil - Largest Portuguese-speaking country, largest country in South America, largest country in the Southern Hemisphere and the largest contiguous territory in the Americas.
    My question is clear i think.Can you say a number of how many White Portuguese people exist in Brazil or not?215 is the total population and includes whites(of various backgrounds),Mestizo,SSA and others.The wiki(wich i don’t really trust)estimates 10 million or something.

  8. #57
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    I identify as an Arab, of course my religion is important as well

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  10. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avraam Kyriakidis View Post
    My question is clear i think.Can you say a number of how many White Portuguese people exist in Brazil or not?215 is the total population and includes whites(of various backgrounds),Mestizo,SSA and others.The wiki(wich i don’t really trust)estimates 10 million or something.
    That is a near impossible task, what is white, what is portuguese? Most of the portuguese ancestry in Brazil comes from long before the 19th century and its great migrations, almost no one from before that great migration was purely portuguese, basically everybody had some degree of native american, sephardic and non portuguese european ancestry (flemish or german merchants, pirates , french or dutch invadors, or simply migrants) and some few already had african blood, tho most of the intermixing with africans happened after the "end" of slavery.
    Then if you count only the people with origins fully in those 19th century portuguese migrants(the correct thing to do in your criteria) the number might be much lower than 10 milion.
    Last edited by Platonitzsche; 12-09-2022 at 07:06 PM.

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  12. #59
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    What is white and what is Portuguese?I think you know very well for what i am talking about.There are White British and Germans in USA,there are whites in Argentina(of Italian and Spanish background)and there are various whites ethnicities in other Latin American countries.I never said that the first Portuguese colonists did not mix with Natives,SSA but ofc there are families of colonial and post-colonial ancestry/background that didn’t mixed with SSA or mestizo.I think this is also clearly from phenotypes and looks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avraam Kyriakidis View Post
    What is white and what is Portuguese?I think you know very well for what i am talking about.There are White British and Germans in USA,there are whites in Argentina(of Italian and Spanish background)and there are various whites ethnicities in other Latin American countries.I never said that the first Portuguese colonists did not mix with Natives,SSA but ofc there are families of colonial and post-colonial ancestry/background that didn’t mixed with SSA or mestizo.I think this is also clearly from phenotypes and looks.
    Yes that is my point with my question, "White" is a problematic concept , because it means diferent things to diferent people and also because it just refers to phenotypes , wich very often don't correlate to actual background, so a 12% native 4% african 6% sephardic jewish colonial brasilian can be white if he looks so or not if he doesn´t, his genetic background create both possibilities.
    Like i told you, colonial brasilians were not purely white(tho the native was often below 3%) nor purely portuguese, it is been almost 5 centuries in wich we are our own group with its own identidy.
    Last edited by Platonitzsche; 12-09-2022 at 11:13 PM.
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