I-M253 in Lebanon

[qallezan65]

A Y-37 test from my grandma's paternal first cousin revealed that their paternal haplogroup is I-M253. I found this interesting because their grandfather was a Maronite Catholic from a town near the Lebanese coast. I doubt an NPE is at play here because my cousin matches with several other Lebanese men in the region who are also I-M253. I was interested in learning more, so I ran his STRs through NevGen and it states that there is a 97.88% probability his subclade is I-L1237.

Does anyone have any ideas on how this lineage arrived in Lebanon? Based on the historical context, the Crusades are one possibility, but I'm curious to see what others think. In total, my cousin has 12 Y-37 matches. Six of them are Lebanese, 4 are German, 1 has an ambiguous surname (could be of English or German origin), and 1 is adopted. NevGen seems to predict more specific subclades of I-L1237 according to certain STRs, with the youngest being I-Y24002.

[JonikW]

A Y-37 test from my grandma's paternal first cousin revealed that their paternal haplogroup is I-M253. I found this interesting because their grandfather was a Maronite Catholic from a town near the Lebanese coast. I doubt an NPE is at play here because my cousin matches with several other Lebanese men in the region who are also I-M253. I was interested in learning more, so I ran his STRs through NevGen and it states that there is a 97.88% probability his subclade is I-L1237.

Does anyone have any ideas on how this lineage arrived in Lebanon? Based on the historical context, the Crusades are one possibility, but I'm curious to see what others think. In total, my cousin has 12 Y-37 matches. Six of them are Lebanese, 4 are German, 1 has an ambiguous surname (could be of English or German origin), and 1 is adopted. NevGen seems to predict more specific subclades of I-L1237 according to certain STRs, with the youngest being I-Y24002.

The Crusades must indeed be a possibility, qallezan65 (perhaps the best pending further evidence, given the number of men involved). My son wrote a university dissertation on interactions between the crusaders and the native population groups not long ago, and I remember digging up some genetic papers to help him add a couple of paragraphs on DNA findings for Medieval and modern Lebanon. I'm sure you're extremely well clued up on all that though.

Aside from that, I-L1237 itself dates to the late Bronze Age and has a wide distribution today, with no real hotspots, so the possibilities are many. You could potentially narrow them down a bit with SNP testing, but regarding possible scenarios I'd immediately include Roman/Byzantine period Germanic strays; the Varangian guard (who had a range of Germanic origins including England); the Vikings in the Caspian and Black Sea region in Early Medieval times; and later traders.

The Vikings would be least likely in my view if your relative really is I-Y24002, but any of the above scenarios that involve English and Germans (Crusades, Roman-era Germanic strays of various kinds, Varangians, merchants) would still be among the more likely possibilities in my view.

EDIT: Added some detail and changed Norse to Viking to distinguish from the Varangians.

[capsian]

A Y-37 test from my grandma's paternal first cousin revealed that their paternal haplogroup is I-M253. I found this interesting because their grandfather was a Maronite Catholic from a town near the Lebanese coast. I doubt an NPE is at play here because my cousin matches with several other Lebanese men in the region who are also I-M253. I was interested in learning more, so I ran his STRs through NevGen and it states that there is a 97.88% probability his subclade is I-L1237.

Does anyone have any ideas on how this lineage arrived in Lebanon? Based on the historical context, the Crusades are one possibility, but I'm curious to see what others think. In total, my cousin has 12 Y-37 matches. Six of them are Lebanese, 4 are German, 1 has an ambiguous surname (could be of English or German origin), and 1 is adopted. NevGen seems to predict more specific subclades of I-L1237 according to certain STRs, with the youngest being I-Y24002.

I think the reason found I1 in Lebanon to Crusades even i think maybe some Roman are belong in this Haplogroup
I think Maybe poeple from Lebnon belong athis subclade
https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-FGC22045/

[JonikW]

I think the reason found I1 in Lebanon to Crusades even i think maybe some Roman are belong in this Haplogroup
I think Maybe poeple from Lebnon belong athis subclade
https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-FGC22045/

Very interesting capsian. That's a separate L22 branch, which looks like it left Scandinavia in larger numbers relatively early on, as you say.

[capsian]

Very interesting capsian. That's a separate L22 branch, which looks like it left Scandinavia in larger numbers relatively early on, as you say.

It probably dates back to an ancient migration, perhaps about 2500 years ago I think there samples ancient DNA from Balkan its belong in this subclade ?

[qallezan65]

An update for you all. I spoke with one of the administrators of the I1 project at FamilyTreeDNA, and he predicts that my grandma’s family falls under I-BY3385, a parent clade of the previously mentioned I-Y24002 that is found in Germany and England. He recommended a BigY test, but I’ll have to wait until I have the funds necessary for this upgrade.

The Crusades must indeed be a possibility, qallezan65 (perhaps the best pending further evidence, given the number of men involved). My son wrote a university dissertation on interactions between the crusaders and the native population groups not long ago, and I remember digging up some genetic papers to help him add a couple of paragraphs on DNA findings for Medieval and modern Lebanon. I'm sure you're extremely well clued up on all that though.

Aside from that, I-L1237 itself dates to the late Bronze Age and has a wide distribution today, with no real hotspots, so the possibilities are many. You could potentially narrow them down a bit with SNP testing, but regarding possible scenarios I'd immediately include Roman/Byzantine period Germanic strays; the Varangian guard (who had a range of Germanic origins including England); the Vikings in the Caspian and Black Sea region in Early Medieval times; and later traders.

The Vikings would be least likely in my view if your relative really is I-Y24002, but any of the above scenarios that involve English and Germans (Crusades, Roman-era Germanic strays of various kinds, Varangians, merchants) would still be among the more likely possibilities in my view.

EDIT: Added some detail and changed Norse to Viking to distinguish from the Varangians.

I definitely agree, I think those are the most plausible ways in which this haplogroup could have arrived in Lebanon. If possible, I’d love to see that dissertation once it’s available! I’ve read up on the topic of Crusaders who stayed behind in the Levant before, but I’m always interested in learning more.

I think the reason found I1 in Lebanon to Crusades even i think maybe some Roman are belong in this Haplogroup
I think Maybe poeple from Lebnon belong athis subclade
https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-FGC22045/

That’s possible too, although I-L22 is a different subclade than the one my family likely falls under. Perhaps there were some Romans with Germanic ancestry who had this haplogroup, especially closer to the Medieval era.

[capsian]

An update for you all. I spoke with one of the administrators of the I1 project at FamilyTreeDNA, and he predicts that my grandma’s family falls under I-BY3385, a parent clade of the previously mentioned I-Y24002 that is found in Germany and England. He recommended a BigY test, but I’ll have to wait until I have the funds necessary for this upgrade.



I definitely agree, I think those are the most plausible ways in which this haplogroup could have arrived in Lebanon. If possible, I’d love to see that dissertation once it’s available! I’ve read up on the topic of Crusaders who stayed behind in the Levant before, but I’m always interested in learning more.



That’s possible too, although I-L22 is a different subclade than the one my family likely falls under. Perhaps there were some Romans with Germanic ancestry who had this haplogroup, especially closer to the Medieval era.

Yes, maybe but don't forget that there was a Germanics impressment in the Roman Empire

[capsian]

An update for you all. I spoke with one of the administrators of the I1 project at FamilyTreeDNA, and he predicts that my grandma’s family falls under I-BY3385, a parent clade of the previously mentioned I-Y24002 that is found in Germany and England. He recommended a BigY test, but I’ll have to wait until I have the funds necessary for this upgrade.



I definitely agree, I think those are the most plausible ways in which this haplogroup could have arrived in Lebanon. If possible, I’d love to see that dissertation once it’s available! I’ve read up on the topic of Crusaders who stayed behind in the Levant before, but I’m always interested in learning more.



That’s possible too, although I-L22 is a different subclade than the one my family likely falls under. Perhaps there were some Romans with Germanic ancestry who had this haplogroup, especially closer to the Medieval era.

Interesting , it seems to me I-BY3386 is a subclade that came to Near East in era Crusades and less probalty in era Roman ?

[qallezan65]

It’s definitely possible. There were tens of thousands of men involved in the Crusades and I imagine many of them (especially those from northwestern Europe) carried haplogroup I1. While it’s not the only possibility, it wouldn’t be implausible for one of these men to settle down, with their descendants eventually assimilating into the Maronite population. I-BY3386 has a TMRCA dated around 2500 years ago, but its descendant clades are well documented on YFull and on FamilyTreeDNA. I’m hoping that once I’m able to afford a BigY test for my cousin, he forms a much younger haplogroup with one of these men. His second closest match at the Y-37 level is a German man identified as I-BY3386*, so I’m confident his terminal clade falls under here.

[Riverman]

There were crusades, but also other movements of people, like Vikings, Germans etc. coming down to the Byzantine and later the Ottoman Empire, as free men or unfree ones. Really a lot of options without an exact subclade and near testers from Europe.