The genetic history of Scandinavia from the Roman Iron Age to the present

[anglesqueville]

Hi, I've already asked this, but maybe you didn't seem my question. With "Germanic ancestry", I meant are they (partially) descended from the proto-Germanic speakers?

If I understand correctly you are asking me to quantify the genetic influx (in the various groups speaking a Germanic language) whose ultimate origin would be Sweden from the pre-Roman Iron Age. I'm far unable to do that. First of all, I don't have any Swedish genomes from the right period (I don't remember if there are any in the big Allentoft study, anyway we don't have the genotypes from this study yet). (And once again this question, as interesting as it is, is incidental to a thesis which is essentially linguistic). So with the current state of available data, we can only speculate. But I agree that in this speculation I-M253 plays a primary role.

[draugr]

26-126CE Auxiliary Horse Grave:
Target: AUT_Klosterneuburg:R10657 DF19
Distance: 2.6272% / 0.02627224
54.0 Scandinavian_IA
35.2 CNE
10.8 British_IA

Target: AUT_Klosterneuburg:R10659 U106 Neonate
Distance: 2.3635% / 0.02363527
52.2 FRA_North_IA
33.0 CNE
8.0 British_IA
6.8 Scandinavian_IA

Target: AUT_Klosterneuburg:R10656 L21>DF13
Distance: 2.2761% / 0.02276142
76.6 British_IA
23.4 Scandinavian_IA


~250CE Auxiliaries (U152 and DF19) Horse Grave:
Target: England_Roman:6DT22
Distance: 1.8544% / 0.01854405
49.6 British_IA
32.2 FRA_North_IA
14.4 Scandinavian_IA
3.8 CNE

Target: England_Roman:6DT23Scaled
Distance: 2.9218% / 0.02921772
51.8 British_IA
28.4 Scandinavian_IA
19.8 FRA_North_IA

Warini (terrible quality sample, slight chance he is DF19):
Target: DEU_Haven_200-400AD:HVN001
Distance: 2.0578% / 0.02057811
66.0 CNE
24.2 Scandinavian_IA
9.8 FRA_North_IA

Lower Saxony Horse Grave (DF19s) 530CE:
Target: Germany_Lower_Saxony_Hiddestorf:HID001
Distance: 1.8351% / 0.01835083
56.8 Scandinavian_IA
34.6 CNE
8.6 British_IA

Target: Germany_Lower_Saxony_Hiddestorf:HID002
Distance: 3.0152% / 0.03015224
77.2 Scandinavian_IA
14.6 CNE
8.2 FRA_North_IA

Target: Germany_Lower_Saxony_Hiddestorf:HID002b (2 and 2b samples are petrous vs tooth, I forget which is which)
Distance: 2.5926% / 0.02592578
55.4 CNE
44.6 Scandinavian_IA

U106 Vandal:
Target: SVK_Poprad_MAA119
Distance: 2.6391% / 0.02639078
81.6 CNE
18.4 FRA_North_IA

Female Ostrogoth:
Target: DEU_MA_ACD_Ostrogothic:STR_220
Distance: 2.9496% / 0.02949551
75.0 CNE
25.0 FRA_North_IA

Unknown culture(s) Czech IA burials:
Target: CZE_IA_Hallstatt_low_res:I17607 DF19 800-500BCE
Distance: 5.1511% / 0.05151094
89.0 Scandinavian_IA
11.0 British_IA

Target: CZE_IA_La_Tene_oFennoscandian:I20509
Distance: 4.6594% / 0.04659400
100.0 Scandinavian_IA

Denmark iron age

VK532
yDNA I-S26361
mtDNA U2e2a1a

Distance to: DNK_Sealand_IA:VK532
0.02367197 Danish
0.02376133 Norwegian
0.02533238 Swedish
0.02541563 Icelandic
0.02940362 Shetlandic
0.03027347 Dutch
0.03072952 Orcadian
0.03094545 Scottish
0.03156961 German_Hamburg
0.03181784 Irish
0.03423271 English
0.03461741 Welsh
0.03581355 English_Cornwall
0.03852114 Afrikaner
0.03973226 German
0.04226947 French_Brittany
0.04256702 German_East
0.04306454 German_Erlangen
0.04425006 Czech
0.04699322 BelgianA
0.05152732 Austrian
0.05320490 BelgianB
0.05337433 Hungarian
0.05405202 Slovakian
0.05439692 French_Seine-Maritime

VK521
yDNA I-A9988*
mtDNA H16b

Distance to: DNK_Sealand_IA:VK521
0.02543865 Icelandic
0.02712082 Swedish
0.02724993 Norwegian
0.02862267 Danish
0.03208330 Orcadian
0.03387150 Scottish
0.03549680 German_Hamburg
0.03594876 Dutch
0.03607656 English
0.03613283 Irish
0.03657199 Shetlandic
0.03716272 English_Cornwall
0.03756169 Welsh
0.04289014 German_East
0.04343789 German
0.04501901 French_Brittany
0.04508819 Afrikaner
0.04750443 German_Erlangen
0.04766663 Czech
0.04827870 BelgianA
0.05452017 Polish_Kashubian
0.05604367 French_Seine-Maritime
0.05622331 Finnish_Southwest
0.05670631 Austrian
0.05717241 BelgianB

VK582
yDNA I-L801
mtDNA H6a1b3
Distance to: DNK_Jutland_IA:VK582
0.04028594 Norwegian
0.04188345 Icelandic
0.04276501 Danish
0.04394381 Swedish
0.04658044 Irish
0.04703809 Shetlandic
0.04803017 Scottish
0.04821226 English
0.04868727 Dutch
0.04924878 Welsh
0.04953550 Orcadian
0.05008315 English_Cornwall
0.05318730 French_Brittany
0.05410074 German_Hamburg
0.05745108 German
0.05820211 Afrikaner
0.06242038 German_Erlangen
0.06308595 BelgianA
0.06478490 BelgianB
0.06504550 German_East
0.06509068 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.06634504 Czech
0.06824163 French_Nord
0.06874282 Austrian
0.06910385 BelgianC

can you tell me if the British_IA trace was detected in the fossils from Denmark iron age?

[Finn]

Denmark iron age

VK532
yDNA I-S26361
mtDNA U2e2a1a

Distance to: DNK_Sealand_IA:VK532
0.02367197 Danish
0.02376133 Norwegian
0.02533238 Swedish
0.02541563 Icelandic
0.02940362 Shetlandic
0.03027347 Dutch
0.03072952 Orcadian
0.03094545 Scottish
0.03156961 German_Hamburg
0.03181784 Irish
0.03423271 English
0.03461741 Welsh
0.03581355 English_Cornwall
0.03852114 Afrikaner
0.03973226 German
0.04226947 French_Brittany
0.04256702 German_East
0.04306454 German_Erlangen
0.04425006 Czech
0.04699322 BelgianA
0.05152732 Austrian
0.05320490 BelgianB
0.05337433 Hungarian
0.05405202 Slovakian
0.05439692 French_Seine-Maritime

VK521
yDNA I-A9988*
mtDNA H16b

Distance to: DNK_Sealand_IA:VK521
0.02543865 Icelandic
0.02712082 Swedish
0.02724993 Norwegian
0.02862267 Danish
0.03208330 Orcadian
0.03387150 Scottish
0.03549680 German_Hamburg
0.03594876 Dutch
0.03607656 English
0.03613283 Irish
0.03657199 Shetlandic
0.03716272 English_Cornwall
0.03756169 Welsh
0.04289014 German_East
0.04343789 German
0.04501901 French_Brittany
0.04508819 Afrikaner
0.04750443 German_Erlangen
0.04766663 Czech
0.04827870 BelgianA
0.05452017 Polish_Kashubian
0.05604367 French_Seine-Maritime
0.05622331 Finnish_Southwest
0.05670631 Austrian
0.05717241 BelgianB

VK582
yDNA I-L801
mtDNA H6a1b3
Distance to: DNK_Jutland_IA:VK582
0.04028594 Norwegian
0.04188345 Icelandic
0.04276501 Danish
0.04394381 Swedish
0.04658044 Irish
0.04703809 Shetlandic
0.04803017 Scottish
0.04821226 English
0.04868727 Dutch
0.04924878 Welsh
0.04953550 Orcadian
0.05008315 English_Cornwall
0.05318730 French_Brittany
0.05410074 German_Hamburg
0.05745108 German
0.05820211 Afrikaner
0.06242038 German_Erlangen
0.06308595 BelgianA
0.06478490 BelgianB
0.06504550 German_East
0.06509068 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.06634504 Czech
0.06824163 French_Nord
0.06874282 Austrian
0.06910385 BelgianC

can you tell me if the British_IA trace was detected in the fossils from Denmark iron age?

In good old times Angles figured this out:

right pops:
Villabruna
Vestonice16
Ust_Ishim_published.DG
Kostenki14.SG
GoyetQ116-1_udg_published
MA1.SG
GanjDareh
BOT14.SG
Kostenki
S_Mbuti-3.DG
A_Papuan-16.DG
A_Han-4.DG
Andaman.SG

left pops:
finndad_NL
Denmark_IA
Ansarve_Megalithic (I wanted to have a "farmer" source. The choice of Ansarve can be disputed, but anyway, according to the results the question has no real importance ...)

best coefficients: 1.025 -0.025
totmean: 1.025 -0.025
boot mean: 1.027 -0.027
std. errors: 0.100 0.100


fixed pat wt dof chisq tail prob
00 0 11 5.192 0.921515 1.025 -0.025 infeasible
01 1 12 5.260 0.948719 1.000 0.000
10 1 12 113.107 1.45072e-18 0.000 1.000
best pat: 00 0.921515 - -
best pat: 01 0.948719 chi(nested): 0.068 p-value for nested model: 0.793938


left pops:
finnmum_NL
Denmark_IA
Ansarve_Megalithic


best coefficients: 0.984 0.016
totmean: 0.984 0.016
boot mean: 0.986 0.014
std. errors: 0.097 0.097


fixed pat wt dof chisq tail prob
00 0 11 6.040 0.870674 0.984 0.016
01 1 12 6.066 0.912698 1.000 0.000
10 1 12 122.121 2.33258e-20 0.000 1.000
best pat: 00 0.870674 - -
best pat: 01 0.912698 chi(nested): 0.026 p-value for nested model: 0.871204

The p-values of the nested models are astronomic. According to this analysis Finn's parents are "pure" Danish from the Iron Age. Btw Denmark_IA is for the three individuals from Margaryan. Of course I used imputed genomes for Finn's parents (947035 SNPs). For the experts, I've taken the risk to keep the transitions.

I don't know if Scandic IA samples would have the same results.

In C vs G format, with Frisian Waldpyk, Elske and the (Friso-) Saxon Finns, with Denmark IA, CNE, Hiddestorf (Saxons ME) Nordic IA, Germ. Medieval (Niederstotzingen migration time).

[Dewsloth]

Denmark iron age

VK532
yDNA I-S26361
mtDNA U2e2a1a

 

Distance to: DNK_Sealand_IA:VK532
0.02367197 Danish
0.02376133 Norwegian
0.02533238 Swedish
0.02541563 Icelandic
0.02940362 Shetlandic
0.03027347 Dutch
0.03072952 Orcadian
0.03094545 Scottish
0.03156961 German_Hamburg
0.03181784 Irish
0.03423271 English
0.03461741 Welsh
0.03581355 English_Cornwall
0.03852114 Afrikaner
0.03973226 German
0.04226947 French_Brittany
0.04256702 German_East
0.04306454 German_Erlangen
0.04425006 Czech
0.04699322 BelgianA
0.05152732 Austrian
0.05320490 BelgianB
0.05337433 Hungarian
0.05405202 Slovakian
0.05439692 French_Seine-Maritime

VK521
yDNA I-A9988*
mtDNA H16b

Distance to: DNK_Sealand_IA:VK521
0.02543865 Icelandic
0.02712082 Swedish
0.02724993 Norwegian
0.02862267 Danish
0.03208330 Orcadian
0.03387150 Scottish
0.03549680 German_Hamburg
0.03594876 Dutch
0.03607656 English
0.03613283 Irish
0.03657199 Shetlandic
0.03716272 English_Cornwall
0.03756169 Welsh
0.04289014 German_East
0.04343789 German
0.04501901 French_Brittany
0.04508819 Afrikaner
0.04750443 German_Erlangen
0.04766663 Czech
0.04827870 BelgianA
0.05452017 Polish_Kashubian
0.05604367 French_Seine-Maritime
0.05622331 Finnish_Southwest
0.05670631 Austrian
0.05717241 BelgianB

VK582
yDNA I-L801
mtDNA H6a1b3
Distance to: DNK_Jutland_IA:VK582
0.04028594 Norwegian
0.04188345 Icelandic
0.04276501 Danish
0.04394381 Swedish
0.04658044 Irish
0.04703809 Shetlandic
0.04803017 Scottish
0.04821226 English
0.04868727 Dutch
0.04924878 Welsh
0.04953550 Orcadian
0.05008315 English_Cornwall
0.05318730 French_Brittany
0.05410074 German_Hamburg
0.05745108 German
0.05820211 Afrikaner
0.06242038 German_Erlangen
0.06308595 BelgianA
0.06478490 BelgianB
0.06504550 German_East
0.06509068 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.06634504 Czech
0.06824163 French_Nord
0.06874282 Austrian
0.06910385 BelgianC

can you tell me if the British_IA trace was detected in the fossils from Denmark iron age?

Using same sources as before (we might be comparing individuals with their own average):

Target: DNK_Jutland_IA:VK582
Distance: 4.2678% / 0.04267818
49.0 Scandinavian_IA
44.6 British_IA
6.4 CNE

Target: DNK_Sealand_IA:VK213
Distance: 4.1606% / 0.04160593
50.4 Scandinavian_IA
49.6 British_IA

Target: DNK_Sealand_IA:VK521
Distance: 1.8741% / 0.01874073
96.4 Scandinavian_IA
3.6 British_IA

Target: DNK_Sealand_IA:VK532
Distance: 1.6446% / 0.01644559
64.6 Scandinavian_IA
35.4 CNE

EDIT -- Meanwhile the other IA Scandinavians:

 

Target: SWE_Oland_IA:VK579
Distance: 3.3154% / 0.03315423
100.0 Scandinavian_IA

Target: SWE_Oland_IA:VK522
Distance: 2.1926% / 0.02192613
73.8 Scandinavian_IA
26.2 CNE

Target: SWE_IA:RISE174
Distance: 2.1721% / 0.02172137
86.2 Scandinavian_IA
13.8 FRA_North_IA

Target: NOR_South_IA:VK391
Distance: 3.4366% / 0.03436599
94.4 Scandinavian_IA
5.6 CNE

Target: NOR_South_IA:VK390
Distance: 2.2406% / 0.02240604
97.4 Scandinavian_IA
2.6 British_IA

Target: NOR_North_IA:VK418
Distance: 2.7665% / 0.02766527
93.4 Scandinavian_IA
6.6 FRA_North_IA

Target: NOR_Mid_IA:VK523
Distance: 2.3306% / 0.02330617
100.0 Scandinavian_IA

[anglesqueville]

can you tell me if the British_IA trace was detected in the fossils from Denmark iron age?

With qpAdm and the only I0789.SG as representant of England_IA, I get this infeasible model:

left pops:
Denmark_IA
Sweden_BAC_ref
Sweden_Megalithic_ansarve.SG
England_IA.SG

best coefficients: 1.370 0.227 -0.596

fixed pat wt dof chisq tail prob
000 0 16 9.575 0.887841 1.370 0.227 -0.596 infeasible
001 1 17 11.423 0.833753 0.882 0.118 0.000
010 1 17 17.907 0.394745 0.070 0.000 0.930
100 1 17 17.418 0.42641 0.000 -0.047 1.047 infeasible
011 2 18 17.579 0.483721 1.000 0.000 0.000
101 2 18 562.969 0 0.000 1.000 0.000
110 2 18 17.974 0.457362 0.000 0.000 1.000
best pat: 000 0.887841 - -
best pat: 001 0.833753 chi(nested): 1.848 p-value for nested model: 0.174074
best pat: 011 0.483721 chi(nested): 6.156 p-value for nested model: 0.0130992

You see that the nested model without England_IA gets an acceptable p-value and an enormous tail_prob. My guess anyway is that allelic tools are not the best ones for traces. We would need haplotypes for this sort of job. In any case I strongly doubt that there are more than traces of British_IA in Denmark_IA, if there are any.

[Bygdedweller]

Using same sources as before (we might be comparing individuals with their own average):

Target: DNK_Jutland_IA:VK582
Distance: 4.2678% / 0.04267818
49.0 Scandinavian_IA
44.6 British_IA
6.4 CNE

Target: DNK_Sealand_IA:VK213
Distance: 4.1606% / 0.04160593
50.4 Scandinavian_IA
49.6 British_IA

Target: DNK_Sealand_IA:VK521
Distance: 1.8741% / 0.01874073
96.4 Scandinavian_IA
3.6 British_IA

Target: DNK_Sealand_IA:VK532
Distance: 1.6446% / 0.01644559
64.6 Scandinavian_IA
35.4 CNE

EDIT -- Meanwhile the other IA Scandinavians:

 

Target: SWE_Oland_IA:VK579
Distance: 3.3154% / 0.03315423
100.0 Scandinavian_IA

Target: SWE_Oland_IA:VK522
Distance: 2.1926% / 0.02192613
73.8 Scandinavian_IA
26.2 CNE

Target: SWE_IA:RISE174
Distance: 2.1721% / 0.02172137
86.2 Scandinavian_IA
13.8 FRA_North_IA

Target: NOR_South_IA:VK391
Distance: 3.4366% / 0.03436599
94.4 Scandinavian_IA
5.6 CNE

Target: NOR_South_IA:VK390
Distance: 2.2406% / 0.02240604
97.4 Scandinavian_IA
2.6 British_IA

Target: NOR_North_IA:VK418
Distance: 2.7665% / 0.02766527
93.4 Scandinavian_IA
6.6 FRA_North_IA

Target: NOR_Mid_IA:VK523
Distance: 2.3306% / 0.02330617
100.0 Scandinavian_IA

VK213 from Gerdrup clearly does have British/Irish-related ancestry. Citing the paper here:

Although our results indicate minimal gene flow into Scandinavia from the British-Irish Isles before the Viking period, we find one interesting exception in individual VK213, a young female excavated in Gerdrup, Denmark, and dated to the 5th century (391–527 CE). She has the third-highest f4 value for British-Irish ancestry among the 297 ancient individuals found in Scandinavia, with PCA projections and qpAdm results indicating that this female is likely to have traced most of her ancestry to the British-Irish Isles (Figures S2A and S3B; Tables S5 and S6). This finding raises the possibility that VK213 ended up in Denmark as an indirect consequence of the Anglo-Saxon migration to the British Isles.

[Finn]

Hi, I've already asked this, but maybe you didn't seem my question. With "Germanic ancestry", I meant are they (partially) descended from the proto-Germanic speakers?

Finn:

the formation of PGmc was 'multipolair' and in a wide area

Non-sense.

I guess due to this 'dogmatic one track minded opinion' of Angles:

All these elements converge towards a single credible hypothesis: the PGmc formed in a region in constant contact with the coastal regions of the Eastern Baltic. This region cannot be located elsewhere than in middle Sweden.

Only the descendants of the middle Swedish IA population are unique (proto) Germanic.

The descendants of Norway IA, Denmark IA, Southern Scania IA, Northern Germany (along the Elbe) IA didn't speak a PGmc language??? But yeah what, Swahili Angles?

It's incredible to me to detach these area's from the development of PGmc culture and specific language.

[Jon]

This sample is interesting:

Medieval_Sweden_Jämtland_Vasterhus wes008 1139 R1b1a1b1a1a2c

It is a new sample, and is just Z290, which is the parent of L21 and the much smaller clade, BY22760. I believe there were a few samples from the previously published samples that were Z290 as well, going from memory on the earlier Viking Paper.

Funny - this sample is coming up on my FTDNA aDNA matches list as L513-->S5668 (which I am). is this a misread somewhere?

[anglesqueville]

Finn:




I guess due to this 'dogmatic one track minded opinion' of Angles:



Only the descendants of the middle Swedish IA population are unique (proto) Germanic.

The descendants of Norway IA, Denmark IA, Southern Scania IA, Northern Germany (along the Elbe) IA didn't speak a PGmc language??? But yeah what, Swahili Angles?

It's incredible to me to detach these area's from the development of PGmc culture and specific language.

Slogans, caricatures and emotional appeals, the usual stuff. Explain only how the notion of multi-polarity can be logically compatible with the definition of a proto-language.

[Webb]

Funny - this sample is coming up on my FTDNA aDNA matches list as L513-->S5668 (which I am). is this a misread somewhere?

I believe the initial call of Z290 might have been a result of one of the posters here using a computer program, or it may have been made by the authors. FTDNA probably did a little more analysis on the sample.