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Thread: Uncle's 23andme and insights about the Toshavim of Morocco

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignis90 View Post
    Isn't the Aden Jewry more mixed/cosmopolitan compared to the bulk of Yemenite Jews? Might explain why this community appears, but the direction of the geneflow is towards Aden, not towards your uncle.

    I know Aden had a Mizrahi (Babylonian/Indian) community, I am not aware of Sephardi presence there (but I might be wrong)

  2. #12
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    Distance: 2.0711% / 0.02071147
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    Distance: 2.1875% / 0.02187503
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    Distance: 2.4050% / 0.02404973
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    Target: abceff
    Distance: 1.8185% / 0.01818511
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    8.4 Wezmeh_N
    7.2 WestAfrican_(Modern)
    2.6 NiloSaharan
    0.8 Bantu

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  4. #13
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    We have Adenite members of our extended Yemenite+Ashkenazi+Mizrahi family. Adenites (עדנים 'Adanim) are distinct from Yemenites, in that there was greater consistent contact with Jewish communities in Egypt, Baghdad, Jerusalem, and India. Thus, there was incorporation by marriage of Mizrahi,Indian, and Western Jews. Adenites, unlike Yemenites, had female education and often fluent English language. Our primary Adenite oldest relative did appear distinct from most Yemenites. Their rite also is a distinct variant of Yemenite rites, unlike that of Sana'a, Shar'ab, Sa'adah Dhamar etc. So while Adenites did not have separate Sefaradi Mizrahi or Indian communities, over time they became more diverse genetically than the Yemenite mainstream, prior to repatriation to Israel, which began in the 1880's, for both Adenites and other Yemenites. Also, interestingly, there is, in the UK, a very British Adenite congregation, which was established in the 20th century, I am not sure when.
    Last edited by Targum; 03-22-2023 at 02:50 PM.

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  6. #14
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    I also found FTDNA to be of dubious quality. AncestryDNA and 23andMe provided more accurate results for my Balkan Sephadic half. I get there 0% Italian on FTDNA, which is as nonsensical as your uncle's Irish. 23andMe and more so Ancestry give me large Italian components. I believe FTDNA can't separate Italian and Sephardic well and are in general struggling with everything that has to do with Spain (as does Myheritage).

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  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEM4867 View Post
    Comparison with Myheritage results-

    For some reason I score really low on their North African jew category (considering I am a fully Moroccan Jew within recent generations).
    For funny reason my uncle gets yemen as a community, god knows why.
    I'd like to say their "Sephardic" category is more Toshavi-like, since I've seen several Libyan Jews get assigned 90-100% Sephardic Jewish - North African, but I can't be sure. I'm sure it's not as straightforward as that. Even my mother (3/4 Ashkenazi, 1/4 Eastern Sephardic) got 25.6% Sephardic - N.A. on MH, which would illogically correspond to almost the entirety of her Sephardic ancestry. In her case, though, it could theoretically be something of an "oracle effect" (like GEDMATCH trying to balance out components through a population split), since "fully" Eastern Sephardic individuals seem to only score 15-25% of that category on average.

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  10. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    I'd like to say their "Sephardic" category is more Toshavi-like, since I've seen several Libyan Jews get assigned 90-100% Sephardic Jewish - North African, but I can't be sure. I'm sure it's not as straightforward as that. Even my mother (3/4 Ashkenazi, 1/4 Eastern Sephardic) got 25.6% Sephardic - N.A. on MH, which would illogically correspond to almost the entirety of her Sephardic ancestry. In her case, though, it could theoretically be something of an "oracle effect" (like GEDMATCH trying to balance out components through a population split), since "fully" Eastern Sephardic individuals seem to only score 15-25% of that category on average.
    I’ve also seen Libyan Jews scoring around 100% in that category, however Moroccan Jews who are largely sephardic also typically score high on that category. It’s almost impossible for me to be more sephardic than my grandmother. I am not sure how it works.

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  12. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    I'd like to say their "Sephardic" category is more Toshavi-like, since I've seen several Libyan Jews get assigned 90-100% Sephardic Jewish - North African, but I can't be sure. I'm sure it's not as straightforward as that. Even my mother (3/4 Ashkenazi, 1/4 Eastern Sephardic) got 25.6% Sephardic - N.A. on MH, which would illogically correspond to almost the entirety of her Sephardic ancestry. In her case, though, it could theoretically be something of an "oracle effect" (like GEDMATCH trying to balance out components through a population split), since "fully" Eastern Sephardic individuals seem to only score 15-25% of that category on average.
    MyHeritage is an Israeli company. Knowing the very immature state at which the Israeli society is at in relation to Jewish ethnic identity and history I wouldn't trust the company employees to be able to create a high quality reference panel, or worse, not be effected by public preception when creating such a panel. All the neauances which we talk so much about in these forums are completely missing in Israel and would likely lead to a public outcry.

    This is reflected in MyHeritage results, their "Sephardic Jewish - North African" looks to be an indiscriminate collection of Jews from North Africa. So both Toshavim and Sephardim will have it assigned. There is no other Sephardic group so all other Sephardi groups, like Balkan/Eastern Sephardics are assigned that group as well. It's really is a reflection of how Israelis talk about Jewish ethnicities.

    For my Eastern Sephardic half, on MyHeritage, I receive 25% Sephardic-Jewish North Africa and 0% Italian. I think they shoved -all- the Italian into that group, another reason why Toshavim, who are heavily italian, get this component as well.
    I also get almost no Levantine, I guess it gets assigned into that component as well. Maybe this category of theirs manages to capture some broad Western Jewish group with a Nortn African Toshavi shift. Another fact which drives this point: on both 23andMe and on AncestrDNA I get a small North African component, which again on Myheritage disappears and is subsumed into the Sephardic Jewish - North African component.

    My Heritage can resolve this matter by Introducing a new Sephardi Jewish - Eastern Med group. But it looks like they gave up on updating their reference panel, ever.
    Last edited by Vinshlusen; 03-23-2023 at 01:38 PM.

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