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Thread: U8a - origins and present day distribution

  1. #1
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    U8a - origins and present day distribution

    I took a look at the U8a samples to see if they seem consistent with a Paleolithic or Mesolithic hunter-gatherer distribution. Behar estimated U8a to be about 18,000 years old. There are only 44 FMS samples in GenBank and 37 of these are in U8a1a, estimated by Behar to be about 5600 years old. There is a U8a1a ancient sample consistent with that date in the Baalberge culture (Germany: Saxony-Anhalt, Quedlinburg VII 2). The greatest diversity of modern U8a1a is found in Germany and Denmark.

    Excluding U8a1a, there are only 7 other U8a samples. There are 3 U8a2 samples (Spain, England and Basque), 1 U8a* sample (American of unknown ancestry) and 3 U8a1b samples (Denmark and Germany). The lack of U8a outside of Europe seems consistent with a European Mesolithic origin. The present day distribution at the fringe of Europe (Spain, and Germanic countries), and the scarcity of modern samples seems consistent with a hunter-gatherer population that was mostly replaced by Neolithic immigrants.

    The relative lack of HVR1 mutations makes U8a difficult to identify in the HVR databases (other than U8a1a which is identified by 16342C)

    U8a is identified in HVR2 by 282C. Does anyone know of more HVR samples for U8a?

    There are 5 U8a samples in the Behar 2012 Basque study, 3 appear to be U8a1a and 2 might be U8a2. U8a is 0.55% of the total samples in the study.
    Last edited by GailT; 07-19-2014 at 06:14 AM.

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    I think the coalescence of U8b's downstream clade K is 20,000 ybp. I hadn't realized K was older than U8a.

    check out a thread over in Mitochondrial (mtDNA) Haplogroups > Other > Basque mtDNA. I gave some info from an old study that found that some Basques are in U8a.
    David Powell
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    Last edited by dp; 07-19-2014 at 05:33 PM.
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    There are also two samples in the 1000 genomes project, U8a1b from the UK and U8a1a1b1 from Finland. There are no U8a in the Human Genome Diversity Project.

    U8a was discussed in 2 conference presentations in 2012. If there is a database of Asian HVR1&2 mtDNA it should be easy to search for U8a samples.

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    Dear Gail,
    RE: U8a. maybe a more recent paper.
    Marta D. Costa 2013 did a paper "A substantial prehistoric European ancestry amongst Ashkenazi maternal lineages." He did indepth study of haplogroup K, and for TMRCA U8 too.
    U8 --51,200 ybp
    U8a--21,700 ybp (1 sequence)
    U8a1--19,500 ybp (30 sequences)
    U8a1a--8,600 ybp
    U8a2 (2 sequences)
    U8b--42,100 ybp (1 sequence)
    U8b1 (13 sequences)
    K--26,900 ybp [I was off 7 kybp. my bad -dp]
    my notes are a bit scrambled.
    anyway maybe it'll help.
    David Powell
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    If you read the thread on the Costa et al paper you'll see that I think they misinterpreted the data and their conclusions are not supported by their analysis.

    I looked at the 23 U8b FMS samples in GenBank. Some of the samples might be closely related so I only used 17 for age estimates, and I don't think the estimates are reliable with so few samples. The greatest diversity in U8b is in the Middle East and Mediterranean region, so this is also consistent with a Middle East origin for K.

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    As far as geographic distribution is concerned, my mother is U8a1a1 and she is from Galicia, Tarnobrzeg area in Poland. Our documented ancestors have lived in a 50km radius since at least 1700s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Domator View Post
    As far as geographic distribution is concerned, my mother is U8a1a1 and she is from Galicia, Tarnobrzeg area in Poland. Our documented ancestors have lived in a 50km radius since at least 1700s.
    Hi Domator, my mother (T436420) has a U8a1a1 on her GEDmatch 'X one-to-one' list using the default parameters. The entry also show a regular 'one-to-one' match with the kit (which does not hold up when you run it on its own, but that far back it still is something). The name on the kit is '*mehardin'. That is not your mother's, is it? If it is not, maybe we should exchange kit numbers for the U8a1a1's.

    Jack Wyatt

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    Question I'm U8a1a and looking for info :)

    Hello there! Just stumbled on the forum trying to find information regarding my haplogroup - U8a1a. I'm fairly new to the whole haplogroup thing, so any information on this is appreciated! Thanks!

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    Hello Grayfenix; Like you I am quite new to this DNA testing, but I can inform you of the following: My mother's haplogroup is U8a1. My entire family is Danish and I have traced my mothers genealogy back to the early 1800's in Denmark, and now know that the oldest female came from Sweden, very likely from southern Sweden.
    Would like to hear from you if interested.
    blytmann

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    Has the slew of aDNA findings since Lazaridis et al. 2015 supported or partially dented the summary in the OP, which was written before the "aDNA era" took shape?

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