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Thread: Kerala Y-DNA Distribution

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    Kerala Y-DNA Distribution

    Starting this thread for discussion regarding Kerala YDNA distribution and updates .

    Link to the ftdna kerala project which now have around 100 members .
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults
    also have syrian christian project and smaller nair project
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults

    Haplogroup C
    Haplogroup C is found in very high numbers among the tribals but very low among general population . Most of the C belongs to C-M356 and its subclade C-P92 but there is some C* as well . There are two C-F1370 from geno 2.0 which i believe is at same level as M356 .Among the C samples 2 of them are nairs and two are hindus (dont know the caste) .One of the Geno 2.0 sample is of a namboothiri brahmin .i also know of a C5a mappila muslim guy tested through 23andme

    Haplogroup F*
    F* is the most common haplogroup among the tribal populations but the only one results known so far from commercial testing (N31347 Pillai). The Pillai is a nair subcaste or rather a title given to nairs especially in south kerala .

    Haplogroup G
    Only G sample i know of is G2a3a which is from a coastal family from kodungallur . Though from Arunkumar et al study we know there is some G among Ezhavas and Nadars .Both are major communities in southern kerala .

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    Haplogroup J

    Haplogroup J2 especially J2a is an important haplogroup among the syrian christians .Three different clades of J-L26 are found among them ie 4 L243 ones ,the L534 one which is the ydna of the project administrator ,and 1 L26+ L192.2- L243- . There is one J-L26 guy over at geno 2.0 as well . The J2a among the syrian christians are argued to be the proof for their partial west asian/jewish descent. But the absence of other lines works against this argument .The autosomal data also works against but i will discuss it sometime later .There are 2 J-M68 samples which seems like a south asian specific clade .Other J2a have too few markers/ not further SNP tested .
    Among the nine J2b2 samples from the ftdna 4 are syrian christians and 5 are hindus with at least one of them a nair . There is one ambiguous result (132944 sebastian) who happen to be M12- and M420- .
    There was on old study which found JxJ2 among mappila muslims . I will try and locate it . It seems an obvious possibility as there are many known marriage ties between them and arabs.The custom called ' arabikalyanam '( in which the poor families marry their daughter to an arab for money who would abandon her and children after sometime) is even happening today and is considered as a social evil . Other than that many of the descendants of the arab ship builders and carpenters are still among them . The marakkars are one such group . As a group the mappila muslims are not into genetic testing so we have to wait till more of them are tested .

    Edit : i found the study about the mappila muslims
    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...g2009168a.html
    Last edited by BMG; 07-20-2014 at 07:57 AM.

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    Haplogroup H
    Haplogroup H is quite diverse in kerala which is expected (H-M69,H-M52,H-APT,H-M82).It is most common haplogroup after R1a among the ezhavas and is prominent among all groups .H1a-M82 is most common subclade . The Kit number 151474 is negative for all the subgroups of H-M69 . Among syrian christians around 10% are some kind of H .

    One of my ancestral lines through my fathers side claimed through their documented family history that they were direct descendants of one of the merchants who migrated from iraq . Someone on that family had tested their ydna and found out they belong to H1a-M82 to their surprise . He is planning to order family finder test as well . A point taken was much of the family history was fabricated at a much later date with some oral traditions mixed with some interesting story of their own since there was hardly any documentation even two hundred years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    Haplogroup H
    Haplogroup H is quite diverse in kerala which is expected (H-M69,H-M52,H-APT,H-M82).It is most common haplogroup after R1a among the ezhavas and is prominent among all groups .H1a-M82 is most common subclade . The Kit number 151474 is negative for all the subgroups of H-M69 . Among syrian christians around 10% are some kind of H .

    One of my ancestral lines through my fathers side claimed through their documented family history that they were direct descendants of one of the merchants who migrated from iraq . Someone on that family had tested their ydna and found out they belong to H1a-M82 to their surprise . He is planning to order family finder test as well . A point taken was much of the family history was fabricated at a much later date with some oral traditions mixed with some interesting story of their own since there was hardly any documentation even two hundred years ago.
    I am not sure if this is related in any way, but one of the four S Iraqi Mandaeans that we have Y-DNA data for is Y-DNA H (kit #189683). Iraqi Mandaeans once spoke a language related to Sureth and Jewish Babylonian, and part of the Eastern Aramaic family of languages spoken in Asōristān, which also included liturgical Syriac.

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    The chances of H1a-M82 ancestor to be from iraq is infinitesimally low but cant be ruled out completely .Any way i think the Iraqi Mandaen guy must have had ancestor coming from south asia at some time especially if he is H1a-M82 .There is some south asian ydna among gulf arabs which would have possibly reached through southern coast via Bandar-e-Abbas .

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    Haplogroup L
    L-M27 and L-M357 are present among keralites. L-M27 has higher frequencies along the konkan coast from maharashtra to kerala .Around 15% of total kerala pop would be L-M27 .It is the most frequent haplogroup among nadars who are mostly in tiruvananthapuram district in kerala and kanyakumari and tirunelveli districts in tamilnadu . L-M357 on other hand is rare but has its presence in even tribal populations which makes me think it has an older presence perhaps even older than L-M27 .L-M357 has unusually higher frequencies in syrian christians .But out of 10 known results among them six of them belong to a minority group called knanaya christians who are highly endogamous people within in the syrian christian community . One of the most surprising thing is that so far all tested knanaya mtdna belongs to a single haplogroup M33a2 .Their ydna stats is L1c-M357 -6/9 L1a-M27-2/9 J2b2 -1/9 .

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    Haplogroup H
    Haplogroup H is quite diverse in kerala which is expected (H-M69,H-M52,H-APT,H-M82).It is most common haplogroup after R1a among the ezhavas and is prominent among all groups .H1a-M82 is most common subclade . The Kit number 151474 is negative for all the subgroups of H-M69 . Among syrian christians around 10% are some kind of H .

    One of my ancestral lines through my fathers side claimed through their documented family history that they were direct descendants of one of the merchants who migrated from iraq . Someone on that family had tested their ydna and found out they belong to H1a-M82 to their surprise . He is planning to order family finder test as well . A point taken was much of the family history was fabricated at a much later date with some oral traditions mixed with some interesting story of their own since there was hardly any documentation even two hundred years ago.
    He was knanaya?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandoos View Post
    He was knanaya?
    No ,This family claims more recent origins .

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    No ,This family claims more recent origins .
    That is interesting. On a somewhat related note, in the R1a Levite thread I noted a possible connection between Iraqi Jews and Mumbai Jews that is plausible, and may be of more recent origin as well.

     
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post


    Rootsi, S. et al. Phylogenetic applications of whole Y-chromosome sequences and the Near Eastern origin of Ashkenazi Levites. Nat. Commun. 4:2928 doi: 10.1038/ncomms3928 (2013).

    http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/13...comms3928.html
    Regarding the Iraqi Jewish and Mumbai Jewish match, this may be of relevance:

    History of the Jews in Bombay, India, began when Jews started settling in Bombay during the 18th century, due to its economic opportunities.[1] The Jewish community of Bombay consisted of the remnants of three distinct communities: the Bene Israeli Jews of Konkan, the Baghdadi Jews of Iraq, and the Cochin Jews of Malabar.[2]
    Last edited by Humanist; 07-22-2014 at 11:47 PM.

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    This one has some info Kerala Jews. http://www.nazraney.com/images/Dr.MI...cript_jews.pdf
    But comes to some bizarre conclusions based on Y-R1a1
    http://www.nazraney.com/images/Dr.MI...cript_jews.pdf

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