Page 1 of 39 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 381

Thread: Branches of Z142

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,408
    Sex
    Location
    Tierra de Ayllon
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>L2>Z49>Z142>
    mtDNA (M)
    H1bt
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Ireland Sweden Finns

    Branches of Z142

    Tonight I looked at the STRs for 35 individuals that are in either of the 2 current branches of Z142 as shown in the FTDNA U152 project.

    Z150/Z12222: 21 samples
    Z51: 14 samples

    I was curious if there were any signature STR values to distinguish the two branches, and I did see one pattern.

    So far all 9 Z150/Z12222 samples that tested for DYS463 have a value of 24 while none of the 8 tested Z51 samples have 24. Instead they have values of 22, 23, and 25.

    If this is indeed a distinguishing marker between the 2 branches, then the following samples in the Z142+ group may be:

    R-Z150/Z12222 (DYS463=24):
    B1457 Drapeaux
    203575 Edgar Fay, b.c. 1873, USA
    102977 William Hill (bef 1742 – bef 1785)
    136311 John Mason, b.1740 England d.1807 Philadelphia PA
    31971 William C. Langley, m. June 1849, Chambers Co, AL
    184173 John Greenwell 1625 - 1658

    R-Z51 (DYS463=22, 23, 25)
    199841 John Stewart, ca 1725 NC
    172561 Matthew Stewart b. 1783 Virginia

    Time will tell
    Y DNA line continued: Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    35% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 5% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    Hidden Content

  2. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (07-27-2014),  blzlovr (07-25-2015),  Mehrdad (08-22-2014),  Pigmon (07-27-2014),  R.Rocca (07-27-2014)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,984
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Ethnicity
    Italo-Iberian
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U152+L2+FGC10543
    mtDNA (M)
    H4a1-T152C!

    United States of America Italy 1861-1946 Spain
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    Tonight I looked at the STRs for 35 individuals that are in either of the 2 current branches of Z142 as shown in the FTDNA U152 project.

    Z150/Z12222: 21 samples
    Z51: 14 samples

    I was curious if there were any signature STR values to distinguish the two branches, and I did see one pattern.

    So far all 9 Z150/Z12222 samples that tested for DYS463 have a value of 24 while none of the 8 tested Z51 samples have 24. Instead they have values of 22, 23, and 25.

    If this is indeed a distinguishing marker between the 2 branches, then the following samples in the Z142+ group may be:

    R-Z150/Z12222 (DYS463=24):
    B1457 Drapeaux
    203575 Edgar Fay, b.c. 1873, USA
    102977 William Hill (bef 1742 – bef 1785)
    136311 John Mason, b.1740 England d.1807 Philadelphia PA
    31971 William C. Langley, m. June 1849, Chambers Co, AL
    184173 John Greenwell 1625 - 1658

    R-Z51 (DYS463=22, 23, 25)
    199841 John Stewart, ca 1725 NC
    172561 Matthew Stewart b. 1783 Virginia

    Time will tell
    With STR signatures being hard to come by in L2 lineages, any indicator helps, even if it is more of a probability and not an absolute.
    Last edited by R.Rocca; 07-27-2014 at 06:05 PM.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to R.Rocca For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (07-27-2014),  blzlovr (07-25-2015),  MitchellSince1893 (07-27-2014),  Pigmon (07-27-2014)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    159
    Sex
    Location
    Kentucky, USA
    Ethnicity
    French, English
    Nationality
    U.S.A.
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152,L2,Z49Z142,Z150

    Switzerland Italy Piemonte France England United States of America
    Mark,

    Should you also be included in the DYS 463=24?

    Also, now you have me wanting to test my STRs from 67 to 111!

    Thanks for doing the research!

    Curtis

    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    Tonight I looked at the STRs for 35 individuals that are in either of the 2 current branches of Z142 as shown in the FTDNA U152 project.

    Z150/Z12222: 21 samples
    Z51: 14 samples

    I was curious if there were any signature STR values to distinguish the two branches, and I did see one pattern.

    So far all 9 Z150/Z12222 samples that tested for DYS463 have a value of 24 while none of the 8 tested Z51 samples have 24. Instead they have values of 22, 23, and 25.

    If this is indeed a distinguishing marker between the 2 branches, then the following samples in the Z142+ group may be:

    R-Z150/Z12222 (DYS463=24):
    B1457 Drapeaux
    203575 Edgar Fay, b.c. 1873, USA
    102977 William Hill (bef 1742 – bef 1785)
    136311 John Mason, b.1740 England d.1807 Philadelphia PA
    31971 William C. Langley, m. June 1849, Chambers Co, AL
    184173 John Greenwell 1625 - 1658

    R-Z51 (DYS463=22, 23, 25)
    199841 John Stewart, ca 1725 NC
    172561 Matthew Stewart b. 1783 Virginia

    Time will tell
    Former cold war era "silent warrior" - the top 1/2 of the top 1 percent of the U.S. Air Force Hidden Content
    Hidden Content

    Current level of testing: R1b1a2a1a2b1c1 U152, L2, Z49, Z142 and Z12222/Z150*

    (BigY shows that a back mutation of PF214 make my closest Big Y matches Buffington, Smith, Lincoln and Mitchell)

  6. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,408
    Sex
    Location
    Tierra de Ayllon
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>L2>Z49>Z142>
    mtDNA (M)
    H1bt
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Ireland Sweden Finns
    Quote Originally Posted by Pigmon View Post
    Mark,

    Should you also be included in the DYS 463=24?

    Also, now you have me wanting to test my STRs from 67 to 111!

    Thanks for doing the research!

    Curtis
    The samples listed under R-Z150/Z12222 and R-Z51 in my previous post were only those that were in the FTDNA U152 project that were Z142+, had tested for DYS463, but hadn't tested for either of the branches. Hence the reason I'm not on that list.

    In other words, I was saying if this signature holds true then the individuals in my previous post (who have done the 111 marker test but not tested below this level) would be in those specific branches.

    Here are the Z150/Z12222 folks who all have DYS463=24. So far no one in this group has any other value.

    B5886 Jean Vidaillet - b. ~1730s, Haute-Garonne, France
    207883 Richard Harding(Hardinge/Harden), 1597-1657
    1370 Gen. 270, John Graves, b.c. 1665, England/Virginia
    1620 Gen. 270, John Graves/Greaves, b.c. 1665
    111766 John Tucker Of Cattle Creek, Orangeburg, SC
    6732 Arnold Peacock, b 1786 Barnwell Co., SC
    249822 Edward Leopold Mitchell-NPE 1893 London
    31300 Jean Beaugrand-Champagne 1641 France
    256287 Wm Wilson 1724-1779 Black River, Georgetown SC


    Here are the Z51 folks that tested for DYS463, all of who don't have DYS463=24

    N1950 Johnson, Winterton, Lincolnshire, England
    224076 William Sargent b 1715
    293908 Solomon Wilson c. 1784 (W)VA - 1877 IN
    206005 Richard CLARKE, NPE, Cambridgeshire UK 1831-1912
    209585 Thomas Davenport - 1615-1685 of Dorchester, Ma.
    7181 Thomas Davenport - 1615-1685 of Dorchester, MA
    B3637 Bernardo Vasquez, b. ca.1770, Galicia, Spain
    218973 Arthur Johns(t)on, b. c.1804, d. late 1870s
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 07-27-2014 at 07:28 PM.
    Y DNA line continued: Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    35% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 5% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    Hidden Content

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (07-27-2014),  Pigmon (07-27-2014)

  8. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    159
    Sex
    Location
    Kentucky, USA
    Ethnicity
    French, English
    Nationality
    U.S.A.
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152,L2,Z49Z142,Z150

    Switzerland Italy Piemonte France England United States of America
    Very interesting! These lists break it down even better.

    Again thanks for doing the work!
    Former cold war era "silent warrior" - the top 1/2 of the top 1 percent of the U.S. Air Force Hidden Content
    Hidden Content

    Current level of testing: R1b1a2a1a2b1c1 U152, L2, Z49, Z142 and Z12222/Z150*

    (BigY shows that a back mutation of PF214 make my closest Big Y matches Buffington, Smith, Lincoln and Mitchell)

  9. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    159
    Sex
    Location
    Kentucky, USA
    Ethnicity
    French, English
    Nationality
    U.S.A.
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152,L2,Z49Z142,Z150

    Switzerland Italy Piemonte France England United States of America
    Another trend I have noticed is that for some reason I tend to place an order with FTDNA when there is a large storm approaching.

    Guess what - we currently have tornado watches and warnings all around us until 8 P.M. Yikes this is getting expensive! Quick someone hide my credit card!

    Seriously though would it be more beneficial to order the 67-111 upgrade for $129 or the single DYS 463 for $20? I am kind of leaning toward the 67-111 upgrade for matching purposes.
    Former cold war era "silent warrior" - the top 1/2 of the top 1 percent of the U.S. Air Force Hidden Content
    Hidden Content

    Current level of testing: R1b1a2a1a2b1c1 U152, L2, Z49, Z142 and Z12222/Z150*

    (BigY shows that a back mutation of PF214 make my closest Big Y matches Buffington, Smith, Lincoln and Mitchell)

  10. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,408
    Sex
    Location
    Tierra de Ayllon
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>L2>Z49>Z142>
    mtDNA (M)
    H1bt
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Ireland Sweden Finns
    You're welcome on the analysis...just trying to do something useful as we appear to be in a lull in the action.

    I was hoping more of the Z142+ folks would have tested with FGC, BigY or ordered some individual SNPs. John Mason is my 2nd closest match I know of at 111 markers so he would be the most promising...but as Richard Rocca can attest STR proximity is often a false positive via SNP testing.

    Long-term I think you would be happier if you went ahead and ordered the 111...more bang for the buck
    Y DNA line continued: Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    35% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 5% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    Hidden Content

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     Pigmon (07-27-2014)

  12. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    159
    Sex
    Location
    Kentucky, USA
    Ethnicity
    French, English
    Nationality
    U.S.A.
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152,L2,Z49Z142,Z150

    Switzerland Italy Piemonte France England United States of America
    Thanks to your input I have now ordered my 67-111 STR upgrade.

    Currently my closest match besides a known cousin at 67 markers is Colonel David Van Valkenburg at a 6 step match. Way out there! At 37 markers I have several 3 step matches with numerous Faulkenberry and Fortenberry surnames.

    Hopefully I can find out more about my weird heritage by doing this!
    Former cold war era "silent warrior" - the top 1/2 of the top 1 percent of the U.S. Air Force Hidden Content
    Hidden Content

    Current level of testing: R1b1a2a1a2b1c1 U152, L2, Z49, Z142 and Z12222/Z150*

    (BigY shows that a back mutation of PF214 make my closest Big Y matches Buffington, Smith, Lincoln and Mitchell)

  13. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Pigmon For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (07-28-2014),  MitchellSince1893 (07-27-2014),  R.Rocca (07-28-2014)

  14. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    30
    Sex
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-FGC22963

    Switzerland Ukraine California Republic United States of America
    Based on some "inside information", I tend to think neither Mason (136311) nor Langley (31971) would be found derived for Z150/Z12222, despite having DYS463=24.

    Some years ago DNA Fingerprint found me, zur Bruegg (13788), to have DYS463 = 24, while recently YSEQ returned results indicating that I was ancestral for Z12222. My connection with Mason and Langley, as well as Skinner (145421) and Sainte Marie O'Neill (E5562) is that all of us are R-142, and each of us has been told by FTDNA that we have the micro allele of 13.2 at DYS385b, giving us 11,13.2 at DYS385a-b instead of the more common values of 11,13 or 11,14. In addition, we share the uncommon values of 14 or 15 at 389i and 31 at 389ii, 24 at 481, and 14 or 15 at 446.

    At least eight men that were found by the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation Y-DNA Project to have 11,13.2 at DYS385a/b also had DYS463 = 24, so my hunch for what it's worth is that they wouldn't have been R-Z12222 either had they been tested. In any case, my FullGenomes Kit is in batch 12, so I hope those in the 385b = 13.2 + Z142 quasi-clade will have a better idea of what we've got immediately downstream of Z142 by year's end.

    One question to anyone: does having L562- results rule out the possibility of Z51 too?



    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    Tonight I looked at the STRs for 35 individuals that are in either of the 2 current branches of Z142 as shown in the FTDNA U152 project.

    Z150/Z12222: 21 samples
    Z51: 14 samples

    I was curious if there were any signature STR values to distinguish the two branches, and I did see one pattern.

    So far all 9 Z150/Z12222 samples that tested for DYS463 have a value of 24 while none of the 8 tested Z51 samples have 24. Instead they have values of 22, 23, and 25.

    If this is indeed a distinguishing marker between the 2 branches, then the following samples in the Z142+ group may be:

    R-Z150/Z12222 (DYS463=24):
    B1457 Drapeaux
    203575 Edgar Fay, b.c. 1873, USA
    102977 William Hill (bef 1742 – bef 1785)
    136311 John Mason, b.1740 England d.1807 Philadelphia PA
    31971 William C. Langley, m. June 1849, Chambers Co, AL
    184173 John Greenwell 1625 - 1658

    R-Z51 (DYS463=22, 23, 25)
    199841 John Stewart, ca 1725 NC
    172561 Matthew Stewart b. 1783 Virginia

    Time will tell
    Last edited by delegz; 07-28-2014 at 12:30 AM.

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to delegz For This Useful Post:

     MitchellSince1893 (07-28-2014),  Pigmon (07-28-2014)

  16. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,408
    Sex
    Location
    Tierra de Ayllon
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>L2>Z49>Z142>
    mtDNA (M)
    H1bt
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Ireland Sweden Finns
    Thanks for the "inside information". I look forward to your FGC results.

    The way it currently looks in the FTDNA project"
    U152> L2> Z49/Z68> Z142> Z51> L562/Z55
    would indicate that there could be other branches of Z51 yet to be discovered; but in Richard's Rocca's tree Z51 and L562 are shown at the same level.

    So I'm not sure.

    Question for you: Does FTDNA notify all testers if the are 13.2?
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 07-28-2014 at 01:37 AM.
    Y DNA line continued: Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    35% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 5% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    Hidden Content

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (07-28-2014),  Pigmon (07-28-2014)

Page 1 of 39 12311 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 22
    Last Post: 09-29-2017, 07:48 PM
  2. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 05-28-2016, 09:19 PM
  3. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-23-2015, 03:49 PM
  4. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-07-2015, 10:05 PM
  5. Group K): R-L2+ Z49 + Z142 + ......
    By Acque agitate in forum L2
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 04-16-2014, 04:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •