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Thread: Tri-Racial Isolate Groups of the US

  1. #21
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    A caveat about my previous few posts:

    I do *not* know that the African ancestry in my family comes from my great-grandfather's lineage. It could just as easily be via my great-grandmother (in picture with my great-grandfather above). I only suspect it to be more probable that the African ancestry is from his side because the Cherokee and "Black-Dutch" references are to his branch of the family. However, for all I know, he may very well have had some Cherokee ancestry (despite the lack of any notable signature of American Indian ancestry in my grandmother's results) if it were in addition to quite a bit of European. Under that scenario, I am just barking up the wrong tree (or branch rather). Despite what I think to be my best guess, it is interesting to note that he had straight, black hair, and was from Oklahoma. My great-grandmother had curly hair, and had ancestry from the SE USA.
    Last edited by Human; 10-02-2012 at 06:15 AM. Reason: typo fixed

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Human View Post
    A caveat about my previous few posts:

    I do *not* know that the African ancestry in my family comes from my great-grandfather's lineage. It could just as easily be via my great-grandmother (in picture with my great-grandfather above). I only suspect it to be more probable that the African ancestry is from his side because the Cherokee and "Black-Dutch" references are to his branch of the family. However, for all I know, he may very well have had some Cherokee ancestry (despite the lack of any notable signature of American Indian ancestry in my grandmother's results) if it were in addition to quite a bit of European. Under that scenario, I am just barking up the wrong tree (or branch rather). Despite what I think to be my best guess, it is interesting to note that he had straight, black hair, and was from Oklahoma. My great-grandmother had curly hair and had ancestry from the SE USA.
    Oklahoma (Indian territory) had 40-44 other tribes in the area. I think most people are just familiar with the Five Civilized tribes that arrived there between 1832-1839 during the Trail of Tears. He had true Black Asian hair? Native Americans can have very hair textures, from silky straight to wavy sometimes to straight black and course. I have seen some Europeans with Black hair, it's not uncommon. Also considering, Native Americans have distinct facial features as well.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppalachianGumbo View Post
    Oklahoma (Indian territory) had 40-44 other tribes in the area. I think most people are just familiar with the Five Civilized tribes that arrived there between 1832-1839 during the Trail of Tears. He had true Black Asian hair? Native Americans can have very hair textures, from silky straight to wavy sometimes to straight black and course. I have seen some Europeans with Black hair, it's not uncommon. Also considering, Native Americans have distinct facial features as well.
    He and his mother both look like they have more "European" facial features to me (perhaps Mediterranean or even Balkan for all I know? ...no offense to anyone out there. I have little else but phenotype and stories to go by.). Both he and his mother were in the two pictures previously posted respectively. Still, yes, I am told he had black hair and dark brown/black eyes (see pic). Unfortunately, his mother (my gggrandmother) is the last known person in that branch.

    According to records, it looks like my ggrandfather was born in Wyoming in the late-nineteenth century, though raised in Oklahoma. To add a tantalizing clue to the mystery, I had an STR allele from dnatribes that scored very high for Native American (assessed using an offsite tool), and not much else. It was highest in DNAtribes' "Salishan" region (NW USA and SE Canada of present-day). There was another STR with high American Indian scores, but with a European population dropping in after the first ten (Polish), I didn't give this one much confidence. The STR allele results, of course, could be a giant, incidental red herring that I tasted. I have been on the fence about these results for a few years, especially considering the criticism and lack of confidence many have for dnatribes.

    At 23andme, my grandmother had 0% "Asian," the commonly used surrogate for American Indian, in her ancestry painting. Unfortunately, as his daughter, she would have no mtDNA or Y DNA inherited from him to explore. If we do indeed have American Indian ancestry, our ancestor is either very far back in our family tree, or somehow the story was accidentally (or maybe even purposefully) reconfigured. One more possibility exists, however improbable. It could be that my grandmother's "African" blocks in her painting are not even African at all, and are instead some unidentified common set of SNPs found in some American Indian groups not genotyped, thus not in any database. Perhaps I have too much confidence in the methods of 23andme, but I doubt this is case.

    Getting back to the issue of my previous posts, "African" was the only solid telltale genetic clue in my grandmother's results (daughter of ggrandfather mentioned). Although I am leaning towards my ggrandfather's branch as the source, if an (semi-recent) African ancestor exists in our family, as I believe he/she does, he/she could very well be down either of my grandmother's parents' family trees.

    Over the past few years, I have come to expect the source and truth may never be known for certain. Although in the end I would like to know, it is fun to speculate, and I suppose that would take away from the fun just a little perhaps.

    Thank you for discussing this with me. I enjoy it!
    Last edited by Human; 10-05-2012 at 12:54 AM.

  4. #24
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    Well that's quite interesting. I had read a few things in the past about the Sizemore family and their possible Native ancestry, but didn't realize they were being classified as Melungeons or know they had found a Native Y-DNA. Riddle and Gibson are common names of course. I have Gibson ancestry but at least on paper they arrived from Ireland. Riddle, I don't have in my ancestry, but my 6th paternal great grandfather is recorded in some places as having ridden with Captain William Riddle as a Tory during the Revolution in North Carolina. Captain Riddle reportedly ended up being hanged by Revolutionary forces. However, both families have genealogy researchers with alternate stories of them both being heroes of the Revolution.

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  6. #25
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    Interestingly, while I don't have any known Sizemore ancestry, my brother, sister, and I have about 15 Family Finder cousins who have Sizemore connections. We also happen to have a number of orange "Asian" blocks in our Ancestry Paintings. While not all of the shared segments correspond to orange regions, a number of them do.

    I have documented Native American ancestry, but in my mother's mother's line, whereas it appears more likely that these connections may be on my mother's father's line.
    Last edited by geebee; 10-22-2012 at 10:01 AM.

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  8. #26
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    This is a one-year-old blog from 23andme, but the subject fits this thread perfectly.
    http://blog.23andme.com/ancestry/our...ican-ancestry/

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  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Human View Post
    This is a one-year-old blog from 23andme, but the subject fits this thread perfectly.
    http://blog.23andme.com/ancestry/our...ican-ancestry/
    That was interesting especially the comment beneath. This comment seems to be trendy

    3. His father was of mostly English origin, light-complected with very light blue eyes and blond hair (but HIS mother was dark-complected with dark brown eyes and hair, and in pictures, she has strong Native American features – even though genealogy doesn’t indicate Native American ancestry).
    I think what tends to be common is people misinterpret facial features as assigned to Native American when many (facial) features can be found in ethnic groups around the world. I have had many messages in my inbox at 23andMe to have a *looks see* at ancestors who were convinced the ancestor looked, non-else than Native American. Upon inspection, was easily identifiable with European populations. What people deem as *strong Native American features* upon looking at the picture, no Amerindian/Mongoloid component is superficially notable.

    I also tend to think people take these tests as one poster mentions:

    I think many of those Native Americans that people have been told are in their family were actually African Americans of light color who passed into the White community.
    Take the tests to confirm Native ancestry and the African signal is detected. I have heard of people never logging on again.

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