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Thread: Tri-Racial Isolate Groups of the US

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    Tri-Racial Isolate Groups of the US

    Tri-Racial Isolate Groups: American USA

    Location: Eastern/South USA
    Racial Mixtures: European, African and Native American

    mixed_groups.gif



    Ohio - Carmel Indians
    Ohio/West VA - Guineas
    North Carolina - Lumbee Indians
    South Carolina - Brass Ankles
    Louisiana - Red Bones
    Tennessee/Kentucky/Western VA - Melungeons


    mtopview.jpgAlpine Biome West Virginia – Appalachia

    In the Eastern portion of the US, including the interior coastal states, were inhabited by Native American Indians of varying tribes. They faced the brunt of the New Worlders which included colonizing Europeans and African slaves. From the 1700's thru the mid 1800's, these three groups were believed to be heavily mixing, so much so they have formed their own little utopia *tri-racial* groupings in the states shown on the above map. Some of these tri-racial groups were mixed with two or more racial components.

    Most of these mixed communities seemed to demonstrate a more European or ambiguous appearance but were considered neither White, Black or Indian. Some of these groups, such as the Melungeon and the Lumbee were listed on the census as *Free People of Color* or FPOC. In the case of the Lumbee, this racial designation (FPOC) has interfered with becoming a federally recognized Indian tribe in which they currently hold state recognized status.
    With these tri-racial groups, due to the racial prejudice and not deemed as what one would say in the south, "all the way white", it was believed people fled into more isolated rugged mountain regions away from the larger community. These communities especially in extreme Appalachia were stereotyped as being uneducated, dirty and marginal people. After the mid-1800's through the 1900's, many of these triracial groups mixed in with the populous awaiting their future resurrection as a people for those on vast genealogical hunts for exotic ancestry.

    As time passed and heading into the 21st Century, being multiracial and multicultural has becoming the *in* thing. Being different and unique ethnically has become very fashionable and adding distinction. Even if ancestry is rumored or unproven, for many who many be plain vanilla or not modestly endowed with ethnic admixture can spice it up with unproven family rumors.

    23andMe_410.JPG
    Coming into our time, is DNA Ethnic Testing, with companies such as 23andMe and Ancestry DNA on the market, we can now make ancestors claims to ancestry walk the walk and talk the talk. Are you really part Indian? Do I really descend from an African slave great great great grandmother? Thanks to DNA testing, people are now being able to to deduce fact and fiction. Like an onion, layer after layer is coming down.


    Winkler+meeting+024.jpgWayne Winkler, Melungeon descendant. Author of 'Walking Toward the Sunset – The Melungeons of Appalachia'

    Let's take a group like the Melugeons for example. A triracial isolate group that was known to inhabit the regions of Tennessee, Southwestern VA and Kentucky (Cumberland Plateau). Never has so much mystery surrounded a group of people on their vague and ambiguous origins. Rumored as Portuguese, Indians, African and Mediterranean. They did not look White, Black or African to the people of that era and were not sure how to classify them racially.
    While people were doing guess work back then, thanks to the DNA testing of today, Robert Estes and Jack Goins used DNA testing to get some idea of Halpogroups assignments associated with *core* members of Melungeon ancestry.

    These are excerpts taken from her study.
    "The Melungeons were a group of individuals found primarily in Hawkins and Hancock Counties of Tennessee and in the far southern portion of Lee County, Virginia which borders Hawkins and Hancock counties in Tennessee. At one time isolated geographically on and near Newman's Ridge and socially due to their dark countenance, they were known to their neighbors as Melungeons, a term applied as an epithet or in a pejorative manner.

    As the stigma of a mixed racial heritage dimmed in the late 20th century and was replaced by a sense of pride, interest in the genealogy and history of the Melungeon people was born. With the advent of the internet and popular press, the story of these people has become larger than life, with their ancestors being attributed to a myriad of exotic sources: Sir Walter Raleigh's Lost Colony, Ottoman Turks, The Lost Tribes of Israel, Jews, Gypsies, descendants of Prince Madoc of Wales, Indians, escaped slaves, Portuguese, Sir Francis Drake's rescued Caribbean Indians and Moorish slaves, Juan Pardo's expedition, De Soto's expedition, abandoned pirates and Black Dutch, among others. Melungeon families themselves claimed to be Indian, white and Portuguese.

    Furthermore, as having Melungeon heritage became desirable and exotic, the range of where these people were reportedly found has expanded to include nearly every state south of New England and east of the Mississippi, and in the words of Dr. Virginia DeMarce,[] Melungeon history has been erroneously expanded to provide "an exotic ancestry...that sweeps in virtually every olive, ruddy and brown-tinged ethnicity known or alleged to have appeared anywhere in the pre-Civil War Southeastern United States."

    Halpogroups

    The Melungeon paternal families were both of European and African origin. To date, only one of the Melungeon ancestral families, Sizemore, has been found with a Native American haplogroup.[124] The Riddle family has been documented in historical records to be of Native ancestry, but the paternal line proves to be European. All mitochondrial DNA lines tested to date are European, haplogroup H.

    Of the Core Melungeon names and their ancestral families, we find them grouped as follows:


    Table 7: Melungeon Surname Haplogroups

    Surname Haplogroups Earliest Records
    Bell R1b1b2 Lee Co., Va., Hawkins Co., Tn.
    Bolin R1b1b2 Brunswick Co., Va., Granville Co., NC, Lunenburg Co., Va.
    Bunch E1b1a Lancaster Co., Va., Hanover/Louisa Co., Va.
    Collins R1a1, R1b1a7a, R1b1b2, E1b1b8a Louisa Co., Va.
    Denham I1 Charles City Co., Va., Louisa Co., Va.
    Gibson R1b1b2, E1b1a Charles City Co., Va., Louisa Co., Va.
    Goins E1b1a (2 groups), A York Co., Va., Louisa Co., Va.
    Goodman R1b1b2 Louisa Co., Va.
    Minor E1b1 Louisa Co., Va.
    Moore R1b1b2 Louisa Co., Va.[128]
    Mullins R1b1b2 Lunenburg Co., Va. - may not be relevant, otherwise, Lee Co., Va.
    Nichols R1b1b2, E1b1a Rockingham Co., Virginia
    Riddle R1b1b2 Granville and Orange Co., NC
    Sizemore Q1a3a Jamestown, Charles City Co, Lunenburg Co., Va.
    Williams R1b1b2 Louisa Co., Virginia

    Of the 15 surnames and the 22 haplogroups, 1 is Native American, 8 are African and 12 are European.
    http://www.jogg.info/72/files/Estes.htm

    Just to mention for those not familiar....a Halpogroup assignment represents one ancestor in the lineage. Could be recent or more distant ancestry. It does not encompass all of one's ancestors. A person can have a Native American Halpgroup but autosomally test 100% European or African per say. Surnames are traced with the Y halpogroup (male) because the last name is consistent with genealogy unlike a woman whose surname changes or may change due to marital status or multiple marriage. The Y line represents the paternal, father's father's etc. To date, no autosomal testing has been done but would prove interesting. Autosomal testing can reveal ancestry within 5 generations (4th great grandparent).
    maledna.jpg

    Roberta Estes report has somewhat stripped away at the exotic lore of the Melungeons showing them to be primarily European extraction, with African admixture and to a much smaller extent Native American. Many circles have not found the report to their satisfaction, deeming it as far from the truth and the report erroneous.

    Interested in other people's thoughts.

    Peace and Light
    Last edited by AppalachianGumbo; 09-10-2012 at 08:59 PM.

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    They need to run autosomal anaylsis on the isolates. As Afram results might suggest, haplogroups among such admixed people are almost always both African or African and European -- Amerind haplogroups are not as common due to the one way marriage pattern in later in the eras and drift away from the original inputs on genealogical lines. When Amerind appears it is usually always in auDNA. I have two cousins with Amerind haplogroups, but far more with Amerind auDNA. While I have some Amerind ancestry, I carry two African haplogroups -- quite consistent with other African Americans. So it is obvious they need to look at the autosomal scattering on the chromosomes if they really want to evaluate components.

    Something tells me if they are looking to establish their triracial origins, auDNA analysis is preferable. Also, some of the Melungeon descendants on 23andme, occasionally have smidgens of other ancestry besides European, African, and Amerind. I have seen a few with South Asian (possibly through Roma people fleeing to the U.S.) and Mideastern segments, indicating even further diverse origins in some cases.

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    I agree Spark. There is a woman who made a post on 23andMe, and she was 3% African. So autosomal would prove very interesting.

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    This is fascinating. My Afram son-in-law has a white grandma who was a Collins from SE Kentucky. Her ancestor William Marshall Collins was quite dark looking and we have theorized a Melungeon connection. They are an elusive bunch to track down in the records, though.

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    Hey Guys,

    A person I frequently talk to on 23andMe, has a cousin who descends from the Lumbee. Her halpogroup is an A2. As more people test, you may have people springing up with Amerindian halpo's. Not common as Spark says, but it's there. From what I was told, autosomally does not test with much Amerindian, though I don't know the exact percentage.

    Ciao

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    Nice topic. It looks like old families which have had a lot of roots in NC/southern VA have Y-DNA R1b1a2/I and mtDNA H/U in common, although I did see many other lineages alongside, like Y-DNA E1b1a and mtDNA L. But it seems to be a different story for old families from the Lumbees, Qualla and south central TN, if FTDNA projects are any indication. The common thread that I've seen from those three groups was Q1a, but more specifically Q1a3a1: likely the only other place that Q1a3a can be found is in Siberia and even there doesn't appear to be widespread. From those same studies I found mtDNA A in the Lumbee region but toward Qualla I found mtDNA C1c represented in the old families. Another thing is that Y-DNA J1 is found in TN while J2a2 is more common among the Lumbees.

    Malyarchuk believes that due to some differences in the particular Q1a3a-M3 (Q1a3a1) haplotypes between Kamchatka and American populations, there is a possibility of a back-migration event from the Americas to Siberia.

    Randomly found this too while looking for E1b1a material: http://historical-melungeons.com/benjamin_collins.html

    A glance at it leaves me with the impression that someone might be in denial about things, but that's just me.

    ____________________________________


    I liked that Belizean thread, so here's my attempt to reconstruct the origins of some of the old colonial-era families in my neck of the woods. I generalized the results and the placements are not exact, but this should give a good idea of the past:

    hapmap2.JPGhapmap.JPG

    I think next time I'll use the mutation names instead, too, since ISOGG loves to change things.
    Last edited by apophis99942; 09-11-2012 at 07:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by apophis99942 View Post
    Nice topic. It looks like old families which have had a lot of roots in NC/southern VA have Y-DNA R1b1a2/I and mtDNA H/U in common, although I did see many other lineages alongside, like Y-DNA E1b1a and mtDNA L. But it seems to be a different story for old families from the Lumbees, Qualla and south central TN, if FTDNA projects are any indication. The common thread that I've seen from those three groups was Q1a, but more specifically Q1a3a1: likely the only other place that Q1a3a can be found is in Siberia and even there doesn't appear to be widespread. From those same studies I found mtDNA A in the Lumbee region but toward Qualla I found mtDNA C1c represented in the old families. Another thing is that Y-DNA J1 is found in TN while J2a2 is more common among the Lumbees.

    Malyarchuk believes that due to some differences in the particular Q1a3a-M3 (Q1a3a1) haplotypes between Kamchatka and American populations, there is a possibility of a back-migration event from the Americas to Siberia.

    Randomly found this too while looking for E1b1a material: http://historical-melungeons.com/benjamin_collins.html

    A glance at it leaves me with the impression that someone might be in denial about things, but that's just me.

    ____________________________________


    I liked that Belizean thread, so here's my attempt to reconstruct the origins of some of the old colonial-era families in my neck of the woods. I generalized the results and the placements are not exact, but this should give a good idea of the past:

    hapmap2.JPGhapmap.JPG

    I think next time I'll use the mutation names instead, too, since ISOGG loves to change things.
    Nice map. Glad to inspire

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    For what little this anecdotal evidence is worth, the branch of my family tree claiming both "Black Dutch" (name used by Melungeons and others) and Amerindian ancestry came up primarily European (98%) with 7 blocks (2%) African in the ancestry painting of 23andme. I should note, however, my own ancestry painting is even less impressive, considering the legend, with >99% European. Still, I think there is something to that 2%.

    This topic of Melungeons and "Black Dutch" had fascinated me for some time, though I have come to think that admixtures such as these, for *at least* the past few hundred years, were/are more common than most believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Human View Post
    For what little this anecdotal evidence is worth, the branch of my family tree claiming both "Black Dutch" (name used by Melungeons and others) and Amerindian ancestry came up primarily European (98%) with 7 blocks (2%) African in the ancestry painting of 23andme. I should note, however, my own ancestry painting is even less impressive, considering the legend, with >99% European. Still, I think there is something to that 2%.

    This topic of Melungeons and "Black Dutch" had fascinated me for some time, though I have come to think that admixtures such as these, for *at least* the past few hundred years, were/are more common than most believe.
    As people mingle outside of the isolate groups, their distinctive African markers become less evident in each succeeding generation until finally offspring eventually test as 100% European. It's all a function of temporal and genetic distance from your Melungeon/Black Dutch ancestors. One of your grandparents still had some markers so that can give you a fair indication of your last evident isolate ancestor's position in your family. Also the Melungeons are not completely homogeneous. They usually always have European and African ancestry, but some have other minor admixtures (Amerindian, South Asian, Mideastern) as well. It depends on your specific ancestors.

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    Tri-racial groups that have stayed in the area for some time and still are, that still show some *Native* or *African* DNA (autosomal testing), recycle it around in the gene pool even though the actual genetic African/Native ancestors cannot be located in a persons lineage of ancestry.

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