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Thread: Ancient Celt from Hinxton DF21+ Z246+

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    Cool Ancient Celt from Hinxton DF21+ Z246+

    Hinxton 4, the Iron Age Celt (circa AD 1) is DF21+ Z246+

    I am surprised some DF21+ guy hasn't jumped on this news yet.

    The body was the best preserved of five unearthed in Hinxton, Cambridgeshire, England, two of which date from about AD 1 (Iron Age). The other three date from about AD 700 (Anglo-Saxon Period).

    Hinxton is apparently in old Catuvellauni territory. The Catuvellauni were a Belgic tribe.

    Congratulations, DF21ers! (I'm envious.)
     


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    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36981 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982 >FGC36981)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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  3. #2
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    There is an update: that sample is now known to be DF25+/S253+.

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...ll=1#post55650
     


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    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36981 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982 >FGC36981)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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    Some dispute that the Catuvellauni were Belgae. Others see the name as the fuller version of the name Catellauni of southern Belgica/ Gaul. My own use of the term Belgae was queried by Alan, a scholarly authority, on cultural and artefact oral grounds. I was using the name in a more geographical context.
    As Peter Salway noted on Roman Britain, the Celts North of the Thames "were probably not all Belgic." Tribes such as the Catuvellauni were "formed out of elements related to the Belgae that had come at an earlier stage in the influx of Iron Age Continental people" from South Belgica.

    Britons hardly seems the best term for what was just an earlier migration from the same area, and the term Gauls may infer origins somewhat further South again. So what term can one use without being corrected? Like you, I probably have to stick with Belgae.

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    The sources I looked at all said the Catuvellauni were a Belgic tribe. One said they comprised a confederation formed of a number of smaller Belgic tribes.

    I don't remember all the sources I looked at, but I do remember one was Encyclopedia Britannica.

    "Britons" is just a catch-all term for the Brythonic-speaking tribes of what are now England, Wales, and southern Scotland.
     


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    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36981 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982 >FGC36981)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory Cain View Post
    Some dispute that the Catuvellauni were Belgae.
    Here is the relevant entry from Celtic Culture: An Historical Encyclopedia ed Koch (2006):

    Catuvellauni was the name of two Belgic tribes of the later pre-Roman Iron Age. In the light of the remarks of Julius Caesar concerning the Continental origins of the Belgae of Britain, it is likely that the British Catuvellauni began as a migratory offshoot of the Gaulish tribe. In historical times, the Catuvellauni on the European Continent were a minor tribe, located in the valley of the river Matrona (modern Marne; see Matronae) and overshadowed by their more powerful neighbours, the Lingones and the Remi. The tribal name survives in the name of the modern town of Châlons-sur-Marne (Latin Catalaunum). It is also recollected in the name of the famous battle of the Campus Catalaunicus ‘Catalaunian plain’, where Attila the Hun was decisively checked by Roman and allied forces under the command of Aëtius in AD 451.

    The British Catuvellauni held a territory north of the Thames that included what are now the English counties of Hertfordshire and parts of Northamptonshire, Oxfordshire, Buckinghamshire, and Cambridgeshire, and also Essex and Suffolk, where they had encroached upon the Trinovantes by the mid-1st century BC. The supreme war leader of the British tribes who opposed Julius Caesar’s incursions in 55 and 54 BC was Cassivellaunos, generally assumed to have been king of the Catuvellauni, even though Caesar does not name his tribe. By about 20 bc, a new Catuvellaunian king, Tasciovanos, appears on the tribe’s coinage, although he is unknown to Graeco-Roman historians. Tasciovanos’s son Cunobelinos (r. c. AD 10–42) was the most powerful ruler of the British Catuvellauni. The Roman historian Suetonius refers to him by the title Britannorum rex ‘king of the Britons’. Cunobelinos struck abundant coinage from his two principal oppida—Camulod~non (now Colchester, Essex) and Verulamion (near St Albans, Hertfordshire) (see Allen, Britannia 6.1–19). He was subsequently prominent in the legendary history of Britain, for example, in the Historia Regum Britanniae of Geoffrey of Monmouth.

    Following Rome’s invasion under the Emperor Claudius in ad 43, Cunobelinos’ sons, Togodumnos and Caratacos, led the resistance of several allied tribes. Togodumnos died early in the war, but Caratacos continued an intense guerilla action in what is now Wales (Cymru) and northern England until he was
    captured and handed over to the Romans by Queen Cartimandua of the Brigantes in ad 51. The dynasty is mentioned in the Old Welsh genealogies, where
    we find the sequence Caratauc map Cinbelin map Teuhuant ‘Caratacos son of Cunobelinos son of Tasciovanos’ (Bartrum, EWGT 11, 127n.).

    Archaeologically, the British Catuvellauni are not distinguishable from the Trinovantes. Both tribes belonged to the Aylesford-Swarling culture, characterized
    by Belgic coinage, oppida, cremation burials, graceful wheel-thrown pottery of a fine light fabric, and metalwork with Late La Tène style ornamentation.
    The Aylesford-Swarling culture of the Catuvellauni has striking parallels on the Continent, mainly in northern France, in the general region of the Continental Catuvellauni. Their central oppidum seems originally to have been Wheathampstead, Hertfordshire, which was probably the place where Cassivellaunos made his last stand against Caesar. After Wheathampstead was abandoned, activity begins in Verulamion (about 8 km to the southwest), where a mint and a large amount of imported the Roman world show the significance of the place. During the reign of Cunobelinos, the Catuvellauni moved their principal capital and mint
    to the oppidum of Camulod~non, in what had been Trinovantian territory. Following the Roman conquest artefacts from Verulamion and Camulod~non continued as the sites and names of important Romano-British towns, Latinized as Verulamium and Camulodunum. Both were destroyed during the revolt of Boudica in AD
    60/61, but were later rebuilt. In Roman Britain, the Catuvellauni formed a civitas or tribal canton, probably centred on Verulamium. That the tribal identity
    was maintained is shown by a funerary inscription from the 2nd century ad from near Hadrian’s Wall for a REGINA CATVALLAVNA LIBERTA ‘Catuvellaunian freedwoman [named] Regina’ (Collingwood & Wright, RIB no. 1065). In the post-Roman period, the old tribal name continues as a man’s name, thus Catgolaun Lauhir (Modern Welsh Cadwallon Lawhir) was a ruler of Gwynedd c. ad 500. His great-grandson Cadwallon ap Cadfan (r. c. 625–634/5) was briefly the chief
    overlord of Britain. The corresponding Old Breton name Catuuallon appears 13 times in the 9th-century charters of the Cartulary of Redon.

    The name Catuvellauni is Celtic [gives details] .[means].. ‘excelling in battle’.
    Last edited by Jean M; 10-30-2014 at 12:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    There is an update: that sample is now known to be DF25+/S253+.
    This is interesting. We have as DF25+ in L21 and Subclades project:

    Rhys ap Rydderch, b. circa 1275, Wales
    John Lewis d. 1657 Malden, MA [Lewis can be a Welsh name]
    Adam C. Lewis, 1885-1928, Kanawha Co., WV
    Robert Humphreys, b.c. 1785, Pwllheli, Wales

    Richard Nagle, b. ca 1800, d. ca. 1852
    John Yabsley b1649 and d.1681 Yealmpton, Devon
    Isaac Mitchell Nichols Maryland 1817
    Francis Wilkes b. ca 1700 prob. Frederick Co.,VA
    William Lyon 1620-1692 >> John de Lyoun 1225-1294
    Robert Viar 1798-1877, son Andrew Jackson Viar

    Plus some Irish surnames.
    Last edited by Jean M; 10-30-2014 at 12:40 PM.

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    Here is the distribution of R1b-L21-DF21-DF25 by country (from earlier this year).
    image.jpg
    And an analysis of matching Surnames
    image.jpg
    Here is the DF25 portion of Alex Williamson's Big Tree from Big Y and FGC results.
    My own (Galway) cluster is adjacent to this cluster.
    image.jpg
    http://www.littlescottishcluster.com...GS/R-DF21.html
    Many of these names belong to the Seven Septs of Laois Cluster, Moore, Dowling, Kelly etc.
    http://www.laois.ie/leisureandcultur...istoryoflaois/

    Is there any known connection between the Seven Septs of Laois and the Catuvellauni?

    It is interesting that the paper extract highlights the following finding.

    "We find in particular that while the Anglo-Saxon samples resemble more closely the modern British population than the earlier samples, the Iron Age samples share more low frequency variation than the later ones with present day samples from southern Europe, in particular Spain (1000GP IBS)."

    http://www.ashg.org/2014meeting/abst...f140122098.htm

    Perhaps Koch is onto something.

    http://www.wales.ac.uk/en/NewsandEve...languages.aspx
    Last edited by Heber; 10-30-2014 at 07:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heber View Post
    Is there any known connection between the Seven Septs of Laois and the Catuvellauni?
    It is perfectly possible that some Catuvellauni de-camped to Ireland after the capture of Caratacos. But then any Romano-Briton in trouble with the Roman authorities could have slipped off to Ireland anytime during the Roman period. Then we have all the movement to and fro subsequently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    This is interesting. We have as DF25+ in L21 and Subclades project:

    Rhys ap Rydderch, b. circa 1275, Wales
    John Lewis d. 1657 Malden, MA [Lewis can be a Welsh name]
    Adam C. Lewis, 1885-1928, Kanawha Co., WV
    Robert Humphreys, b.c. 1785, Pwllheli, Wales

    Richard Nagle, b. ca 1800, d. ca. 1852
    John Yabsley b1649 and d.1681 Yealmpton, Devon
    Isaac Mitchell Nichols Maryland 1817
    Francis Wilkes b. ca 1700 prob. Frederick Co.,VA
    William Lyon 1620-1692 >> John de Lyoun 1225-1294
    Robert Viar 1798-1877, son Andrew Jackson Viar

    Plus some Irish surnames.
    Nichols can also be Welsh. I have Welsh Nichols ancestors from Monmouthshire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heber View Post
    Here is the distribution of R1b-L21-DF21-DF25 by country (from earlier this year).
    image.jpg
    And an analysis of matching Surnames
    image.jpg
    Here is the DF25 portion of Alex Williamson's Big Tree from Big Y and FGC results.
    My own (Galway) cluster is adjacent to this cluster.
    image.jpg
    http://www.littlescottishcluster.com...GS/R-DF21.html
    Many of these names belong to the Seven Septs of Laois Cluster, Moore, Dowling, Kelly etc.
    http://www.laois.ie/leisureandcultur...istoryoflaois/

    Is there any known connection between the Seven Septs of Laois and the Catuvellauni?

    It is interesting that the paper extract highlights the following finding.

    "We find in particular that while the Anglo-Saxon samples resemble more closely the modern British population than the earlier samples, the Iron Age samples share more low frequency variation than the later ones with present day samples from southern Europe, in particular Spain (1000GP IBS)."

    http://www.ashg.org/2014meeting/abst...f140122098.htm

    Perhaps Koch is onto something.

    http://www.wales.ac.uk/en/NewsandEve...languages.aspx
    The little bit by which the two Iron Age Celts from Hinxton exceed the Anglo-Saxon Period bodies in a resemblance to people from SW Europe can probably be attributed to the aboriginal substrate population of Britain, i.e., the people who repopulated the Isles from the FC Ice Age Refuge after the LGM. Those people would not have carried any y-dna R1b, but they formed part of the mix that went into the making of the British, and the Hinxton Celts were closer to them in both time and total autosomal dna than later inhabitants of the Isles were.

    On a separate topic having nothing to do with the aboriginal inhabitants of the Isles, O'Rahilly thought Bolg and Belgae were cognates and that the Fir Bolg were an historical reality and actual Belgic immigrants to Ireland. This is not something I have studied much, but given this recent Hinxton 4 result, it may be something to reconsider. Is there some strong reason to discount it?
    Last edited by rms2; 10-31-2014 at 11:23 AM. Reason: Awkward wording
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36981 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982 >FGC36981)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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