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Thread: Ancient Celt from Hinxton DF21+ Z246+

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    All news to me. I see R1b1a2a1a2c1m (CTS2457.2) on ISOGG and yfull.com directly under DF13.
    Don't take that as Gospel!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory Cain View Post
    Don't take that as Gospel!
    Oh I don't! With the tree growing extra branches and twiglets at its present speed, I can scarcely find my way around it from one day to the next. It's an exciting time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Oh I don't! With the tree growing extra branches and twiglets at its present speed, I can scarcely find my way around it from one day to the next. It's an exciting time.
    Yes, it is. The excitement seems too much for the commercial companies to keep up with and the biggest problem for keen SNP testers is to find an up to date phylogeny somewhere. It used to be Thomas Krahn's at ytree.ftdna.com and despite not being updated since Thomas left it remains more reek net than the version FTDNA use, already obsolete on the day it was introduced.

    Chris Morley does an update to his annually and if you get it while it's hot off the press, it's the most up to date. It then falls behind over the remainder of the year.

    ISOGG have always been regulation bound and slow-moving, but is well out in front of FTDNA.

    With Thomas Krahn's gone from FTDNA, Alex Williamson's Big Tree at his Little Scottish Cluster website is good. To get back to the thread, Alex shows CTS2457.2 as DF13 > FGC5494 > FGC5661 > FGC5496 > S1088 > CTS2547.2 so it has already grown an extra step.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory Cain View Post
    Chris Morley does an update to his annually and if you get it while it's hot off the press, it's the most up to date. It then falls behind over the remainder of the year.
    I'm wondering if he is going to update it again since he started the company that analyzes NGS results. The YFull tree is the most up to date tree available to people that are trying to get a general idea of where an SNP exists. It's situations like yours that show there are still some updates needed to YFull but there are a lot of other SNPs that still have no new revelations in the past few months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    I'm wondering if he is going to update it again since he started the company that analyzes NGS results. The YFull tree is the most up to date tree available to people that are trying to get a general idea of where an SNP exists. It's situations like yours that show there are still some updates needed to YFull but there are a lot of other SNPs that still have no new revelations in the past few months.
    Quite right, the Yfull tree is evolving with the times. I guess the reason why I don't mention it is because one has to re-code a lot of SNP that one know by other names and translate them into the double-up name that Yfull has assigned. Folks often object to having to do that. But you're right, it's up to date.

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    It seems to me that the most accuarte and up to date trees are the result of daily work by the Haplogroup Project Administrators. If you aren not following them via here or a Yahoo forum you may be light years behind. And FTDNA just completly missed the boat relying so heavily on their association with the Genographic project and not even paying attention to their own Big Y results.....eventually it will get sorted but in the meantime you really have to go to the gurus withing each subgroup for the latest. YFull is the best of the overall bunch but it is still way behing what is going on at the sub-haplogroup level as far as I can see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwheaton View Post
    It seems to me that the most accuarte and up to date trees are the result of daily work by the Haplogroup Project Administrators. If you aren not following them via here or a Yahoo forum you may be light years behind. And FTDNA just completly missed the boat relying so heavily on their association with the Genographic project and not even paying attention to their own Big Y results.....eventually it will get sorted but in the meantime you really have to go to the gurus withing each subgroup for the latest. YFull is the best of the overall bunch but it is still way behing what is going on at the sub-haplogroup level as far as I can see.
    True enough. Remembering that one of the Hinxton burials is DF21+, the ytree provided by Charles Fueston to the R-DF21 & Sub-classes project is more comprehensive than anything from ISOGG or FRDNA. Charles has shaded in red any SNPs already accepted by ISOGG. FTDNA are so out if date, he didn't bother shading the few SNPs that FTDNA have included on the DF21 section of their ytree. 'Nuff said!

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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    It just seems that if Belgae made it to Ireland they didnt come with classic Belgic material culture. However, it is possible that Belgic tribes might have arrived after some initial Romanisation and therefore be represented by Roman material which is quite common in eastern Ireland.
    Perhaps this is an issue of semantics, but would you not consider La Tene artifacts to be Belgic material? The Marne-Moselle region was essentially home to the the tribes that would eventually be considered the "Belgae" by ancient historians. Although not pervasive, there are La Tene artifacts found in the northern half of Ireland, including ones even Simon James would acknowledge as likely being from the Rhineland.

    If CTS2457 is representative of Belgic migration to Hibernia, given its size, one would expect to see some material, but not substantial amounts. Clearly, the genetic evidence does not suggests large scale population movements.

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    In the area that was the frontier between the retreating Ulster dynasty and the expanding Connaught dynasty, we see pockets of DNA types where the Connaught dynasty settled their allies on sword land. The "Breifne clans" branch of Z253; the Airghialla branch of DF21, and a mix in Fermanagh that includes more Z263 and that CTS2457 pocket.

    Archeologically I believe that it looks like Islands of native culture surrounded by Romano-British, at least in parts. I wonder if Alan and his correspondents are not talking at cross-purposes, and if Alan's Romano-British do not equate with the multiple other writers' Belgae?

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    Anybody have access to the raw data of his Y-dna ? How many mutations(including private) does he have under L21 ?(I hope the dna coverage is good), btw he is 2000yo right ?

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