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Thread: Middle Eastern Cherokees?

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    Middle Eastern Cherokees?

    Check this out...

    http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1021...etic-research/

    The premise of the article is that a huge percentage of Cherokee maternal lineages are mtdna haplogroup T* which the authors say is even higher than in the Middle East. Could this be proof of ancient old/new world contacts or is this just another sensational bit of hooey?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grossvater View Post
    Check this out...

    http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1021...etic-research/

    The premise of the article is that a huge percentage of Cherokee maternal lineages are mtdna haplogroup T* which the authors say is even higher than in the Middle East. Could this be proof of ancient old/new world contacts or is this just another sensational bit of hooey?
    I am not sure where he is getting his data from, but those frequencies for mtDNA T are double what I would expect to be observed among Arabs.

    I reckon these may be "mixed" Cherokees, and the maternal lines are of European origin.

    He wrote in his report, released earlier this month: “T is the leading haplogroup (23.1 percent), with a frequency on a par with modern-day Egyptians (23.4 percent) and Arabs (24.4 percent).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grossvater View Post
    Could this be proof of ancient old/new world contacts or is this just another sensational bit of hooey?
    The crucial claim that needs thorough investigation is this:
    ---
    “Moreover, had it occurred in the colonial period or more recently, the diversity, age, and unique characteristics of the T haplotypes would not have yielded the patterns noticed in this paper. Most T’s would have matched people in the Old World and we would simply be looking at an effect of migration. Instead, we have a North American branch of T with peculiar SNPs [Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms, a DNA sequence variation] which is evidently a cross-section of a very old population originating in the Old World.”
    ---
    Last edited by lgmayka; 10-27-2014 at 06:42 PM.

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    He didn't give sub-clades or any other information other than it's middle eastern.

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    Here's what seems to be the paper, lots of stuff about the T samples can be found in page 15. Let's just say I remain unconvinced.

    http://dnaconsultants.com/_literatur...n_the_Cherokee

    This project also seems to focus on people with a tradition of Cherokee heritage but who were disappointed by commercial analyses telling them they're 100% European with European haplogroups.

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    This "study" is pure, unadulterated rubbish. None of the claims are supported. He would need to test full sequences to determine if there was truly a very old branch of one of the Eurasian haplogroups that is uniquely found in the Americas. Perhaps it is possible, but no study based on partial HVR results can support this claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by lgmayka View Post
    The crucial claim that needs thorough investigation is this:
    ---
    “Moreover, had it occurred in the colonial period or more recently, the diversity, age, and unique characteristics of the T haplotypes would not have yielded the patterns noticed in this paper. Most T’s would have matched people in the Old World and we would simply be looking at an effect of migration. Instead, we have a North American branch of T with peculiar SNPs [Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms, a DNA sequence variation] which is evidently a cross-section of a very old population originating in the Old World.”
    ---

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    Welp, I guess I'll convert to Mormonism now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Welp, I guess I'll convert to Mormonism now.
    Hahaha, yeah me too!!!!

    Good one bro

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    Quote Originally Posted by GailT View Post
    This "study" is pure, unadulterated rubbish. None of the claims are supported. He would need to test full sequences to determine if there was truly a very old branch of one of the Eurasian haplogroups that is uniquely found in the Americas. Perhaps it is possible, but no study based on partial HVR results can support this claim.
    I thought this might be the case. So many of these so-called "studies" do turn out to be "rubbish"...although I was amused by your turn of phrase describing this rubbish as being "pure" and "unadulterated."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grossvater View Post
    I thought this might be the case. So many of these so-called "studies" do turn out to be "rubbish"...although I was amused by your turn of phrase describing this rubbish as being "pure" and "unadulterated."
    It is not substantiated, but I would hesitate to characterize the connection as rubbish.
    We do know that a connection for X (and C1) exists.
    http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~tgschurr/p...cle%202000.pdf
    All the Amerindian haplogroup X haplotypes share a common core set of RFLP and control region sequence mutations with European haplogroup X mtDNAs, but otherwise differ from them by at least several control region mutations...
    Interestingly, it occurs at its highest frequencies among Algonkian-speaking groups such as the Ojibwa ...

    Because many Native populations exhibit European admixture in nuclear genetic studies, it seems likely that some of their OTHER mtDNAs were acquired through gene flow with modern Europeans.
    Indeed, this does appear to be the case, as European haplogroup H and T mtDNAs are found in the Ojibwa, and European haplogroup H and J mtDNAs are seen in the Cherokee.
    Some of the nuclear European admixture seen in Amerindians too may be from the ancient common Siberian ancestry rather than post colonial.


    http://www.degruyter.com/view/books/...0266306.93.xml
    The T haplogroup appears simultaneously (with a 15 % frequency) in the Krotovo and Andronovo groups...Haplogroup T lineages were found, with a frequency of 25 %, in the samples (n=16) taken from two Andronovo groups from the Krasnoyarsk and upper Ob River areas.
    Last edited by parasar; 10-28-2014 at 03:44 AM.

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