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Thread: Genes mirror geography in Europe - Slovakia

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    Genes mirror geography in Europe - Slovakia

    Quote Originally Posted by Heber View Post
    Partial quote:

    Edit: See Genes mirror geography in Europe

    Attachment 2845

    Attachment 2846

    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...331.html#close
    This partial quote is copied from a post by Heber on the POBI thread, but I decided to start a new post so as not to take that thread off topic. I find the above PCA to be very much in line with the title of the article except one point really jumped out at me. SK which I believe is Slovakia appears to cluster with Italians, Greeks, Cyprus and Turks rather than Czechs, Poles, Ukrainians, Austrians and Hungarians as I would have perhaps expected. I did not purchase the article so I don't know if this point is covered there, but does anyone know or have an opinion on whether this positioning of SK is just an anomaly of the data or valid based on historical facts?

    Mike McG

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    Slovaks are generally almost indistinguishable from most Czechs, southern Poles, and many Hungarians.

    The single Slovakian individual in this study is probably either significantly Jewish or Roma.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    Slovaks are generally almost indistinguishable from most Czechs, southern Poles, and many Hungarians.

    The single Slovakian individual in this study is probably either significantly Jewish or Roma.
    Jewish is far more likely IMHO, this Slovakian individual plots right where one would expect the Jewish cluster to show up.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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    In my case, Ancestry gives me 1% Eastern Europe, 1% Caucasus, and "<1%" South Asian (Roma?). I strongly suspect those findings are from my Austrian maternal grandfather.

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    That single case attracted attention when the paper was first published. No other study has connected Slovaks with the Mediterranean in that way.

    Although no information about that case is available, it is not out of the question that he or she was partly of Italian descent.

    Edit: My own ancestry is half Slovak. My 23andMe Ancestry Composition gives me 0.0% Southern European.
    Last edited by J1 DYS388=13; 11-09-2014 at 05:56 AM.

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    Well this is an interesting thread. However isn't the paper in the first post kind of old from 2008? Anyway I find it interesting as my father's mother's parents are from eastern Slovakia. I grew up being told what I thought was that she was "Russian", come to find out she meant "Rusyn". I'm still trying to figure out what the heck that means. (To be Rusyn that is.)

    Anyway, now to my point. At 23andme I have 2.8% Balkan that I inherited from my father in split view. My X chromosomes are almost entirely painted Balkan, except for a segment that is designated as Northern European. I see I share that with my Mom. My daughter did not inherit any of her X chromosomes from my Mom. Her X from me is therefore from my father's mother, and is painted all Balkan.
    Last edited by Tįltos; 11-09-2014 at 06:16 PM.

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    What it means to be Rusyn (my ancestry is too, in part) is a subject which can generate more heat than light. So I will dodge that issue and just note that some people of the northern Carpathians other than Rusyns are known to be the descendants of c.16th century migrants from the southern Carpathians. That could be where your Balkan segments come from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J1 DYS388=13 View Post
    What it means to be Rusyn (my ancestry is too, in part) is a subject which can generate more heat than light. So I will dodge that issue and just note that some people of the northern Carpathians other than Rusyns are known to be the descendants of c.16th century migrants from the southern Carpathians. That could be where your Balkan segments come from.
    Thanks, about the 16th century migrants from the Southern Carpathians. I cannot get back that far in this line, only that both villages in eastern Slovakia where they are from have "Rusyns", and that my family practiced the Greek Catholic rite. Names in this line are Latsko, Hreha, and Kuzsma.

    Yes, it does seem to create heated discussion, and why it confuses me as there isn't much of a clear cut answer. All I know is they seem to be a people without a country.
    Last edited by Tįltos; 11-09-2014 at 07:34 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tįltos View Post
    Thanks, about the 16th century migrants from the Southern Carpathians. I cannot get back that far in this line, only that both villages in eastern Slovakia where they are from have "Rusyns", and that my family practiced the Greek Catholic rite. Names in this line are Latsko, Hreha, and Kuzsma.

    Yes, it does seem to create heated discussion, and why it confuses me as there isn't much of a clear cut answer. All I know is they seem to be a people without a country.
    My mother's grandmother was Rusyn. They called themselves Polish (Lemkos). They would say thy spoken Ukrainian and they were all devout Roman Catholics in the US. In reality they were Rusyn, spoke Rusyn and were Greek Orthodox in Europe. Rusyns where I grew up preferred to identify as Polish.

    What is a Rusyn?
    http://www.slovakia.org/society-rusyn.htm

    Polish Lemko
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkos

    Map of turn of century Rusyn areas.
    http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/galicia3.gif

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    Quote Originally Posted by thetick View Post
    My mother's grandmother was Rusyn. They called themselves Polish (Lemkos). They would say thy spoken Ukrainian and they were all devout Roman Catholics in the US. In reality they were Rusyn, spoke Rusyn and were Greek Orthodox in Europe. Rusyns where I grew up preferred to identify as Polish.

    What is a Rusyn?
    http://www.slovakia.org/society-rusyn.htm

    Polish Lemko
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkos

    Map of turn of century Rusyn areas.
    http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/galicia3.gif
    Hi tick, yes I remember you are part Lemko. Thanks for the links, I have seen them before, but good to see again. There is conflicting information in them though about origins.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkos
    The ethnogenesis of the Lemkos is still being discussed by scholars. According to one theory, the Lemkos (and other Carpatho-Rusyns) are descendants of the White Croats. Some Polish scholars claim that they developed from a Vlach – Rusyn migration in the 14th and 15th centuries. There is also a view that they are refugees from Rus who moved to the Western side of the Carpathian Mountains in the 14th century to escape the Mongol invasion. Some scholars suggest that settlers from Rus' may have arrived earlier to the area traditionally inhabited by Lemkos. Analysis of population genetics shows statistical differences between Lemkos and other Slavic or European populations.[8]
    I would like to know more about the haplogroups I and M that they reported in here.
    An analysis of maternal lineages found that Lemkos have the highest frequency of Haplogroup I (mtDNA) found to that date. Haplogroup M* also reaches its regional peak among Lemkos.

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