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Thread: Waves of migration into South Asia

  1. #11
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    http://www.ansi.gov.in/dna_studies.htm

    ANTHROPOLOGICAL SURVEY OF INDIA
    In our Indian mtDNA genome screening, Pauri Bhuiya tribe of Indian main land population which distributed in the state of Orissa shares genetic similarity with the hitherto Andaman Islanders, the Jarawa, the Onge and the Great Andamanese by sharing 7 mutations of Andaman Islands characteristic haplogroup M31.

    We redefined M31 haplogroup by 4 coding mutations, at np 15440, 15530, 1176 and 4907. These four mutations were also shared by Rajbanshi of West Bengal, India (Palanichamy et al 2006). Pauri Bhuiya, Jarawa and other Great Andamanese share M31a characterized by polymorphisms at np12876, 3999. M31a branched into M31a1, characterized by Andaman Islanders and M31a2, characteristic of the Pauri Bhuiya.

    Conclusions
    Our results shows haplogroup M31 evolved on Indian mainland and later populated Andaman Islands during Upper Paleolithic times. Genetic links with North Eastern Indian coastal populations like Rajbanshi and Pauri Bhuiya convicts genetic evidence for “Southern route” hypothesis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    1. The Genographic map is for a very early period, at least 50000ybp. OoA event is undifferentiated ANI+ASI, I suppose. An Out of southern India event to the West - this would be ancestral ANI and an out of southern India event to the east ancestral ASI. From this movement to the east a wrap-around to the west joining ancestral ANI.

    2. In the historical period I would say that there has been little genetic effect on the Subcontinent as the preceding population levels have been immense. Confirmed historical movements have included those of Greeks, Arabs, Turko-Mongols, and Europeans in that order. Assuming that these movements were male mediated we see a minimal to trace impact.

    3. So we have to look at the periods, between 1 and 2 above. My read is that the wrap-around portion entered India and not only from the north-west. They came down all the antecendent rivers of the Himalayas. While indeed India always sustained a large population, there was significant space especially in the densely forested Indo-Gangetic plains to clear. The first settlements were perhaps the riverine diaras and along the Himalayan terrai. This is the ingress that Reich, Moorjani, and associates, are seeing as a late admixture event. The period of this admixture may well be after the ingress. The reason we are not seeing clear evidence of movements in components such as MA1's ANE is that that is far too old. Its age makes it somewhat medial to the Out of India event and the later ingress.

    Finally we will need specimens from South Asia, Upper Asia, and West Asia to confirm any of this. Higher resolution will enable us to clarify these movements.
    while I agree with you, the maps main flaw is that there was no persian gulf at tthe time , it was a river. There is a clear possibility that K formed in and around the straits of Hormuz with one K going along the coast towards india and the other heading north to mesopotamia to form J ..............my opinion


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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    while I agree with you, the maps main flaw is that there was no persian gulf at tthe time , it was a river. There is a clear possibility that K formed in and around the straits of Hormuz with one K going along the coast towards india and the other heading north to mesopotamia to form J ..............my opinion
    Yes that is possible. The reason I said southern India is because that Nat Geo map, which is based on a study of modern populations, comes from a study that sees the focal point as southern India.

    "we tested whether recombinational diversity was correlated with the geographical distance of Eurasians from South Asia, particularly south India (Figure 5). This correlation turned out to be significant"
    http://digital.csic.es/bitstream/10261/43813/1/tmm.pdf
    Last edited by parasar; 11-11-2014 at 05:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    [*]Palaeolithic: mtDNA haplogroup U2 (at least) from the next dispersal out of Africa. Component in Dravidian-speakers?
    U2a, U2b and U2c are primarily found in the sub-continent and are extremely old and extremely rare in GenBank.

    We need a larger sample size from India, Pakistan, Tibet etc to understand the current frequency and geographic distribution of these groups. It should be possible to identify some of these using HVR results, but I don't know of any studies that have published mtDNA results (either HVR or FMS) for large population studies from these regions. This is a case where I think we could still learn quite a bit by looking at modern populations.

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    What can we tell from Y-DNA haplogroups in South Asia? Any bets on which is the oldest i.e. the first to arrive? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h...an_populations

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    What can we tell from Y-DNA haplogroups in South Asia? Any bets on which is the oldest i.e. the first to arrive? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h...an_populations
    I'd bet on Y-DNA C to be the first to arrive, since this is also found in Australia, South East Asia and the Pacific.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    What can we tell from Y-DNA haplogroups in South Asia? Any bets on which is the oldest i.e. the first to arrive? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h...an_populations
    H-M69, O and F maybe ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    What can we tell from Y-DNA haplogroups in South Asia? Any bets on which is the oldest i.e. the first to arrive? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h...an_populations
    the age of the haplogroups are in the link below
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragroup

    You can clearly see who came from which haplogroup...........

    What are you aiming at in your comments?


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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    the age of the haplogroups are in the link below You can clearly see who came from which haplogroup...........

    What are you aiming at in your comments?
    The age of a haplogroup is only half the story. The other half is when a particular haplogroup or subclade arrived in a particular continent or region or place. For example A1 is a very ancient haplogroup, but I would expect it to have arrived very recently in South Asia (if it is there at all), because it does not seem to have left Africa in the initial migrations that populated Eurasia and the Americas.
    Last edited by Jean M; 11-12-2014 at 07:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Here is my messy attempt to fit South Asians onto the Lazaridis 2014 diagram for Europeans.

    Attachment 2934

    Explanation: the South Asian population is very complex. It is a huge area that has attracted numerous inward migrations, including some from East Asia that I do not show, as they are distinct from the simple ASI/ANI model of Reich et al. 2009.

    What I attempt to show is:

    1. ASI: a migration from Africa via India to Australia, maybe 30-40 ka earlier than the next out-of-Africa migration.
    2. Palaeolithic: mtDNA haplogroup U2 (at least) from the next dispersal out of Africa. Component in Dravidian-speakers?
    3. Neolithic: migration of farmers from Iran to Indus valley. Ancestors IVC. Most likely Y-DNA J included. Language now dead, as absorbed by incoming IE. [Note: rice-farming input from east is not shown on diagram, simply to avoid creating even more mess on a chart not meant for South Asia]
    4. Indic: migration from region of BMAC, which had been taken over by Andronovo-Tazabagyab people. The mixture of IE and the language of the BMAC seems to have produced ancestral Indic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bactria...ogical_Complex


    Later inward migrations included
    1. Scythians (whom we can expect to bring more of the Yamnaya mixture, plus a bit of East Asian) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Scythians
    2. Arabian
    3. Muslim conquests on the Indian subcontinent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_...n_subcontinent


    I'm sure experts on South Asia can improve on this.
    I'm thinking YDNA G and H should be included as part of the South Asian Neolithic Advance. H being almost entirely locally derived.
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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