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Thread: Waves of migration into South Asia

  1. #3691
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Sarazm did not get their extra ANE from Botai , Jeitun groups interacted mainly with remnants of what was the Keltiminar culture, Botai horse remains are not found in Tajikistan. Essentially its a mix of all 4 you stated but some groups seem to have direct ancestry from those Siberian groups living in the BA ( Rors and Kalash come to mind).
    Yes I wasn't saying they mixed, but the fact that Dali or Botai types existed around that time in Kazakhstan shows that it was possible that very ANE rich, WSHG like populations existed in central asia(perhaps further south) at the time resulting in a Sarazm type genetic profile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Sarazm did not get their extra ANE from Botai , Jeitun groups interacted mainly with remnants of what was the Keltiminar culture, Botai horse remains are not found in Tajikistan. Essentially its a mix of all 4 you stated but some groups seem to have direct ancestry from those Siberian groups living in the BA ( Rors and Kalash come to mind).
    If the rakhigarhi AASI rich samples show significant ANE we can hypothesize that it was probably a pre-harappan mix.
    Last edited by agent_lime; 08-26-2019 at 06:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    If the rakhigarhi AASI rich samples show significant ANE we can be hypothesize that it was probably a pre-harappan mix.
    Once Rakhigarhi samples show up, we should have a better understanding of both IranN as well as more paleolithic ANE that affect(ed) South Asians pre-BronzeAge.

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  6. #3694
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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    Once Rakhigarhi samples show up, we should have a better understanding of both IranN as well as more paleolithic ANE that affect(ed) South Asians pre-BronzeAge.
    Total hypothetical, but IMO the Paleolithic is too early for ANE to show up in South Asia. If it did get there so early it would have diverged enough to be just considered AASI. Humans go North to form the ANE from S/ SC Asia. I think archeological estimates might be off, and the ANE branch goes North perhaps 30-40 kya. My personal thinking is we get ANE rich people in South Asia, in the Mesolithic. Around the 8.2 kiloyear event when populations would have needed to migrate South or suffer. That is when the ANE folks reach S/SC Asia and mix with the locals.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.2_kiloyear_event
    Drier conditions were notable in North Africa, and East Africa suffered five centuries of general drought. In West Asia, especially Mesopotamia, the 8.2-kiloyear event was a 300-year aridification and cooling episode, which may have provided the natural force for Mesopotamian irrigation agriculture and surplus production, which were essential for the earliest formation of classes and urban life.[citation needed] However, changes taking place over centuries around the period are difficult to link specifically to the approximately 100-year abrupt event, as recorded most clearly in the Greenland ice cores.

    In particular, in Tell Sabi Abyad, Syria, significant cultural changes are observed at c. 6200 BC; the settlement was not abandoned at the time.[24]
    Every 1000-2000 years we are getting a cooling event. Enough for some ancient tundra based people to run South.


    By Giorgiogp2 - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/inde...curid=13309952
    Last edited by agent_lime; 08-26-2019 at 06:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    Total hypothetical, but IMO the Paleolithic is too early for ANE to show up in South Asia. If it did get there so early it would have diverged enough to be just considered AASI. Humans go North to form the ANE from S/ SC Asia. I think archeological estimates might be off, and the ANE branch goes North perhaps 30-40 kya. My personal thinking is we get ANE rich people in South Asia, in the Mesolithic. Around the 8.2 kiloyear event when populations would have needed to migrate South or suffer. That is when the ANE folks reach S/SC Asia and mix with the locals.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.2_kiloyear_event
    It was definitely there or some related component, thats how your SIS3 is still able to have 35-36% ANE despite being what half AASI almost, based of my calculation it would be 15-20% for the local HG , U2i clades have definitely been there since the Epipaleolithic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    It was definitely there or some related component, thats how your SIS3 is still able to have 35-36% ANE despite being what half AASI almost, based of my calculation it would be 15-20% for the local HG , U2i clades have definitely been there since the Epipaleolithic.
    Can you run some nMonte showing 30-35% ANE? SIS3 is 2650BCE. Maybe ANE does get to South Asia around Younger Dryas.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    Can you run some nMonte showing 30-35% ANE? SIS3 is 2650BCE. Maybe ANE does get to South Asia around Younger Dryas.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas
    Its established there was a paper out few years ago which showed the U line was already there

    Conversely, hg U2 in South Asia dates to more than 35 kya, indicating its presence prior to the LGM.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/srep46044

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    Wait I’m confused I thought ma1/Mal’ta buret lived during the lgm, how did the ancestry get to South Asia before the lgm?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    Wait I’m confused I thought ma1/Mal’ta buret lived during the lgm, how did the ancestry get to South Asia before the lgm?
    MA1's ANS ancestors.

    My question is what y-dna accompanied the U2i (supposing that's what carried ANE like ancestry to SA)? Is K-Y28299 a good candidate? Both Ust Ishim and Oase 1 are K2a* and had been in North Eurasia during early Upper Paleolithic.

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  17. #3700
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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    Wait I’m confused I thought ma1/Mal’ta buret lived during the lgm, how did the ancestry get to South Asia before the lgm?
    That and ANE needs a lot of time to diverge from the S/ SC Asian humans. MA1 is pretty divergent by the lgm, meaning EEMH formed ANE without significant migrations from South Asia. The more I read wikipedia, the more confused I get. Lol.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe..._modern_humans

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