Waves of migration into South Asia

[26284729292]

It was definitely there or some related component, thats how your SIS3 is still able to have 35-36% ANE despite being what half AASI almost, based of my calculation it would be 15-20% for the local HG , U2i clades have definitely been there since the Epipaleolithic.

SIS3 is such an iconic sample for south asian genetics. Imagine how different modeling would be without it.

[pegasus]

SIS3 is such an iconic sample for south asian genetics. Imagine how different modeling would be without it.

Yeah he is , he is the gold standard only SSo is better but that sample is from 2.0Ky later. It seems the SIS2/Gonur 2 types died out or mixed in further with tribal like populations before the Indo Aryans got there because there is no single population which can model well with SIS2 or Gonur2

[Reza]

For my learning: what is it about SSo that makes it an unrealistic vector for gangetic populations and therefore not used much in modelling?

Primarily a geographical (and temporal) issue ie improbable in that time frame that any Swat type population would have contributed any significant ancestry?

In the absence of other alternatives, could it theoretically not represent a sister like population, or is just too far removed geographically?

[parasar]

There is a difference between hardly and none as in 0 (words, forms, and grammar)

In my thinking Indo-Aryans in the Ural region were a spur not a back-migration to the Urals. Where they were a spur from, I'm not sure, Persia? Bactria? Kuban?

We don't have data from Bactria as yet but the Zagros is giving us some clues. In the last few weeks we have learned from the Reich group that "farmers related to those from Iran spread northward into the Eurasian steppe; and people related to both the early farmers of Iran and to the pastoralists of the Eurasian steppe spread eastward into South Asia" pointing to a spur from Iran related farmers northward.

As yet, I'm not even convinced based on Metspalu's k5 that this eastward spread was post-Neolithic or earlier. Metspalu had mentioned that while k5 does peak in the southern Indus, they could not see a strong cline within India. Why?

"Most South Asians bear membership in only ... two main ancestry components—k5 and k6 ...
[In] Baluchistan (Balochi, Brahui, and Makrani) ... the proportion of the light green component (k5) is significantly higher than in the Indian populations ...
[but]
"[Within India] there is only a very weak correlation (r = 0.4) between probability of membership in this cluster and distance from its closest core area in Baluchistan (Figure S6). Instead, a more steady cline (correlation r = 0.7 with distance from Baluchistan) of decrease of probability for ancestry in the k5 light green ancestral population can be observed as one moves from Baluchistan toward north (north Pakistan and Central Asia) and west (Iran, the Caucasus, and, finally, the Near East and Europe)...
[and]
"However, we found that haplotypic diversity of this ancestry component is much greater than that of those dominating in Europe (k4, depicted in dark blue) and the Near East (k3, depicted in light blue), thus pointing to an older age of the component and/or long-term higher effective population size (Figure S8)."


Now I am near certain what this well over 12.5k old k5 component of very high diversity is. It is the one seen in the Zagros:


Modern-day peoples with affinity to WC1. Modern groups with an increasingly higher (respectively lower) inferred proportion of haplotype sharing with the Iranian Neolithic Wezmeh Cave (WC1, 7,455-7,082 cal BCE, blue triangle) compared to the Anatolian Neolithic Barcın genome (Bar8; 6,212–6,030 cal BCE, red triangle) are depicted with an increasingly stronger blue color (respectively red color). Circle sizes illustrate the relative absolute proportion of this difference between WC1 versus Bar8. The key for the modern group labels is provided in table S24.

WC1's ancestors may have had company.

https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/439...al-discoveries

[Censored]

How common is G3 mtdna in South Asia? Is it indigenous?

[parasar]

How common is G3 mtdna in South Asia? Is it indigenous?

mt G including G3 is considered east Asiatic and its relationship with M12 also puts its origin the east Asia region.

"Indian specific haplogroups of M - M2, M6, M38, M53, M54, M58, M59, M62, and East Asian specific haplogroups M8, M11, M12′G in India are rather ancient with ages >50,000 years. Whereas, haplogroups M3, M30, M37 have younger founder ages, i.e.<25,000 years. The ages of the remaining haplogroups range from 26,000–50,000 years. The Indian M haplogroup founder age has been estimated as 66,000±9,000 years. The coalescence age of East Asian M lineages in Northeast India (69,000±7,000 years) is similar to the East Asian (69,000±5000 years by [11]) age."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757894/

[Censored]

mt G including G3 is considered east Asiatic and its relationship with M12 also puts its origin the east Asia region.

"Indian specific haplogroups of M - M2, M6, M38, M53, M54, M58, M59, M62, and East Asian specific haplogroups M8, M11, M12′G in India are rather ancient with ages >50,000 years. Whereas, haplogroups M3, M30, M37 have younger founder ages, i.e.<25,000 years. The ages of the remaining haplogroups range from 26,000–50,000 years. The Indian M haplogroup founder age has been estimated as 66,000±9,000 years. The coalescence age of East Asian M lineages in Northeast India (69,000±7,000 years) is similar to the East Asian (69,000±5000 years by [11]) age."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757894/

So if a indian has it then does it mean it came from outside?

[parasar]

So if a indian has it then does it mean it came from outside?

Yes likely - and probably from the NE which is an area with many east Asiatic lines.

[Censored]

Yes likely - and probably from the NE which is an area with many east Asiatic lines.

my father has it

[Sapporo]

So if a indian has it then does it mean it came from outside?

Subclade G3 is relatively rare. It has been found mainly among Koreans, Tibetans, and presently Turkic- or Mongolic-speaking populations in southern Siberia and vicinity, and occasionally among Evenks in Buryatia, Japanese, Pumi, Naxi, Uyghurs, Sarikolis, Tajiks, Pashtuns and Hazaras in Afghanistan, Kashmir, Han Chinese in Sichuan,Hmong and Tujia in western Hunan, and Vietnamese.

The quote is taken from wiki but it references this study:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-017-0028-8