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Thread: Waves of migration into South Asia

  1. #4401
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    do we know the location indo aryans or proto indo aryans entered in south asia? was is]t Khyber pass? or northern areas like Hunza/Chitral near the Wakhan Corridor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Posted on Eurogenes:
    https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2020/...ing-stuff.html
    "One of them is from the necropolis in Merichleri from the Early Bronze Age and in another necropolis in Tsaribrod (the older of the two), these are mound necropolises from the Yamna culture in the Caucasus, of people who migrated here in Bulgaria and connected between you are. They came from the haplogroup R1a, namely Z93, which is the haplogroup again of the Scythian, but more of the Indo-Aryan tribes, the future Indo-Aryans, who later conquered India. But one of the tribes of the Yamna culture seems to have strayed and arrived in the Balkans instead of going to India. And so by chance, because archaeologists and geneticists have chosen between 260 burial mounds from this period, they have chosen only 3-4 and have come across exactly this extremely ancient group, which is from the time before the Indo-European group was divided into Iranians, Indians and Slavs, they were still one people at the time with the same genomes. And yes, one of these groups is among what we call Thracian tribes, but these are not Thracians."
    The U2e Vs U2a b c split might provide more information along with W & T clades of mtDNA.
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    The U2e Vs U2a b c split might provide more information along with W & T clades of mtDNA.
    The mt phylogeny is not clear, but it is possible as presently constructed that U2c'd is a branch of U2b and U2e is also a branch of U2b, i.e. U2b lines, U2c, U2d, and U2e all have a common ancestor in U2b.

    https://www.phylotree.org/tree/U.htm

    U2 A16051G FN600416

    .U2a A16206c

    ..U2a1 (T195C!) A16230G! T16311C!

    ...U2a1a G8572A T16154C JX488759 AY882379

    ...U2a1b T11383C AY713992 DQ112816

    ..U2a2 C194T G3316A A4970G T5201C G7382A G7853A G7859A C11151T T11299C T12477C G12561A C14883T G15734A T16271C KF056257 KC533515

    .U2b T146C! G2706A A5186t C12106T G13194A C15049T

    ..U2b1 G3915A A4093G (C16168T) HM156690 EU330890

    ...U2b1a G13708A AY714020 KF056258

    ..U2b2 T152C! A234G G1888A C9094T A9614G T12793C T13656C G15930A T16209C C16239T T16352C C16353T AY714027 AY882380

    T152C!

    ..U2c'd C16234T

    ...U2c C5790a T14935C A15061G AY714010

    ....U2c1 T8023C C8676T C9767T KC533505 JX984460

    .....U2c1a G15043A C16179T A16240c AY714005 HM036565

    .....U2c1b A12172G AY882381 HM036556

    ...U2d T199C G263A T471C T1700C C4025T A8938G A11893G A14926G T16189C! C16294T

    ....U2d1 A8982G C16184T T16342C JQ706062 EU440736

    ....U2d2 G5147A G5460A T6956C A8296G T13789C JQ705999

    .....U2d2a 15883A JQ706046 KC911405

    ....U2d3 T1040C G6023A A7277G A7894G C16266T JQ706045 JQ706025

    ..U2e A508G A3720

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  5. #4404
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    Quote Originally Posted by akash View Post
    do we know the location indo aryans or proto indo aryans entered in south asia? was is]t Khyber pass? or northern areas like Hunza/Chitral near the Wakhan Corridor?
    Rather via the Gomal Pass and Central-South Afghanistan. Based on ancient Swat_IA genomes the Khyber pass region did not seem to have many Ror-like types exclduing the one (foreign?) female outliner.

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  7. #4405
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    The mt phylogeny is not clear, but it is possible as presently constructed that U2c'd is a branch of U2b and U2e is also a branch of U2b, i.e. U2b lines, U2c, U2d, and U2e all have a common ancestor in U2b.

    https://www.phylotree.org/tree/U.htm

    U2 A16051G FN600416

    .U2a A16206c

    ..U2a1 (T195C!) A16230G! T16311C!

    ...U2a1a G8572A T16154C JX488759 AY882379

    ...U2a1b T11383C AY713992 DQ112816

    ..U2a2 C194T G3316A A4970G T5201C G7382A G7853A G7859A C11151T T11299C T12477C G12561A C14883T G15734A T16271C KF056257 KC533515

    .U2b T146C! G2706A A5186t C12106T G13194A C15049T

    ..U2b1 G3915A A4093G (C16168T) HM156690 EU330890

    ...U2b1a G13708A AY714020 KF056258

    ..U2b2 T152C! A234G G1888A C9094T A9614G T12793C T13656C G15930A T16209C C16239T T16352C C16353T AY714027 AY882380

    T152C!

    ..U2c'd C16234T

    ...U2c C5790a T14935C A15061G AY714010

    ....U2c1 T8023C C8676T C9767T KC533505 JX984460

    .....U2c1a G15043A C16179T A16240c AY714005 HM036565

    .....U2c1b A12172G AY882381 HM036556

    ...U2d T199C G263A T471C T1700C C4025T A8938G A11893G A14926G T16189C! C16294T

    ....U2d1 A8982G C16184T T16342C JQ706062 EU440736

    ....U2d2 G5147A G5460A T6956C A8296G T13789C JQ705999

    .....U2d2a 15883A JQ706046 KC911405

    ....U2d3 T1040C G6023A A7277G A7894G C16266T JQ706045 JQ706025

    ..U2e A508G A3720
    You can see the conflict in phylogeny here.
    YFull considers U2e and Uc'd to be a part of the U2-a branch!
    https://www.yfull.com/mtree/U2-a/

  8. #4406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Rather via the Gomal Pass and Central-South Afghanistan. Based on ancient Swat_IA genomes the Khyber pass region did not seem to have many Ror-like types exclduing the one (foreign?) female outliner.
    but isn't NE Euro considered as a Indo Aryan marker? how come that region of Central South Afghanistan lacks this component now?

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    It is problematic in both Phylotree and Yfull to use marker 152 to define major branch points. Even compared to other portions of the hypervariable region, 152 is especially hyper-unstable and mutations and back mutations are extremely common. Also, in Phylotree, U2c'd and U2e are sister clades, not subclades of U2b. If you ignore the Phylotree branch point defined by T152C!, it is easier to see that U2a, U2b, U2c'd and U2e are all sister clades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by akash View Post
    but isn't NE Euro considered as a Indo Aryan marker? how come that region of Central South Afghanistan lacks this component now?
    They dont lack this component today. There is still around 20-30 steppe admix in the region lower than among modern day Ror for sure but Indo-Aryans moving through the region were not the only population populating it and for some time the region still had IVC/BMAC groups lacking steppe living next to Indo-Aryans rich in steppe. Unlike for Swat we lack any ancient genomes from the region so Steppe ancestry could be much higher around 1000-1500 B.C in the region among some clans.

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    Recent papers shed some light on Eurasian Steppe characterizing Sythians into distinct Eastern and Western groups. They also elucidate spread of plague from Tien Shan along the Silk Road.
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...078v1.full.pdf
    http://www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com/...%20steppes.pdf

    The second paper shows that Scythians where distinct in Eastern vs. Western steppe regions.
    They show that Hungarian Sythians had elevated European farmers ancestry and a small East Asian HG ancestry.
    They note that Central Steppe Saka/Tien Shan Saka emerged out of the nomadic pastoralists with Baikal_HG admixture eventually merged with local Neolithic Iranian and LBA Steppe tribes to form a distinct group among Scythians.
    Second paper also shows shows a considerable admixture from Western Sarmatians.
    I am also uploading their admixture measures.
    Screen Shot 2020-10-05 at 7.36.58 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2020-10-05 at 7.37.14 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2020-10-05 at 7.37.14 PM.png

    They argue that sex specific male dominated admixture components in Sakas along with Iranian lone words in Tocharian lends credence to Tien Shan Sakas/Huns being part of a larger Iranic tribe with EA admixture.

    Screen Shot 2020-10-05 at 8.26.54 PM.png
    They do compare modern populations with these Scythian tribes, some relating distinctly with European and some with EAsians. Some still with South Central Asian of today. I would have to look at their supplement files to see what South/Central Asian groups they used. These groups ruled in South Central Asia until the start of the Islamizations, might be a reason for late Iron Age East Asian and Iranic/Caucasian admixture. Screen Shot 2020-10-05 at 8.36.26 PM.png
    Last edited by Kapisa; 10-06-2020 at 04:36 PM.

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    "A Tale of Two Subcontinents: The Parallel Prehistories of Europe and South Asia", by David Reich:


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