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Thread: Waves of migration into South Asia

  1. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Of course, Underhill was then unaware of the Poltavka Z94 find, especially with parallel Z93 lines close by, along with closely related Z283, and related xZ645 in central Europe in the same time frame. I bet Underhill would not say the same today.
    Underhill 2014 was operating with the notorious "evolutionary effective" mutation rate, which was a serious handicap. He was a contributor to Poznik et al 2016, so I think we can take it that his thinking has moved on since then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Underhill 2014 was operating with the notorious "evolutionary effective" mutation rate, which was a serious handicap. He was a contributor to Poznik et al 2016, so I think we can take it that his thinking has moved on since then.
    I can certainly personally attest that Peter Underhill and all of us now date via Y sequences rather that the YSTR evolutionary mutation rate of Zhivitosky et al.

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     Jean M (07-17-2016),  Michał (07-17-2016),  parasar (07-17-2016),  Saetro (07-17-2016)

  4. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by royking View Post
    I can certainly personally attest that Peter Underhill and all of us now date via Y sequences rather that the YSTR evolutionary mutation rate of Zhivitosky et al.
    Good to know. I will make a note for any possible 3rd edition of AJ.

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     Michał (07-17-2016)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Underhill 2014 was operating with the notorious "evolutionary effective" mutation rate, which was a serious handicap. He was a contributor to Poznik et al 2016, so I think we can take it that his thinking has moved on since then.
    At the link I had provide in my post:
    "a coalescence time within R1a-M417 of ~5800 (95% CI: 4800–6800) year ... A consensus has not yet been reached on the rate at which Y-chromosome SNPs accumulate within this 9.99 Mb sequence. Recent estimates include one SNP per: ~100 years,58 122 years,4 151 years5 (deep sequencing reanalysis rate), and 162 years.59 Using a rate of one SNP per 122 years, and based on an average branch length of 206 SNPs from the common ancestor of the 13 sequences, we estimate the bifurcation of R1 into R1a and R1b to have occurred ~25 100 ago (95% CI: 21 300–29 000). Using the 8 R1a lineages, with an average length of 48 SNPs accumulated since the common ancestor, we estimate the splintering of R1a-M417 to have occurred rather recently, ~5800 years ago (95% CI: 4800–6800)."

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    At the link I had provide in my post:
    So was it Underhill 2010 who used the Zhivotovsky rate? One of his papers did, but your memory is better than mine.
    Last edited by Jean M; 07-17-2016 at 08:52 PM. Reason: Fixing spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    So was it Underhill 2010 who used the Zhivitosky rate? One of his papers did, but your memory is better than mine.
    Yes that is correct Underhill 2010 used Zhivotovsky.
    Underhill 2014 had Zhivotovsky ages listed too but used the SNP rate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    As I said above PIE had no words for items like "brick" or "irrigation channel" and so PII or Old Indic borrowed them.
    However, sintashtian used bricks. Are sintashtians not arian? These linguistic arguments are too limited. We do not know when and where some groups of Indo-Europeans met with bricks and irigatsionnymi channels, but we know: rigvedian arian knew monumental architecture, developed agriculture,seafaring. And there is no linguistic evidence that they had learned about it from dravidians or harappians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ral View Post
    However, sintashtian used bricks.
    Where do do think they got the idea from?

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     pegasus (07-19-2016)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Where do do think they got the idea from?
    I dont know but i see problem. Really Rigveda describes the developed settled Aryan population (multicolumn palaces, plow farming, large multipaddle ships).
    But under pressure from some biased researchers , rigvedian arian's mode of life was correlated to the undeveloped andronovans mode of life(only because of the chariots). I doubt that the developed harrapians were not familiar with chariots, despite the paucity of finds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ral View Post
    I dont know but i see problem. Really Rigveda describes the developed settled Aryan population (multicolumn palaces, plow farming, large multipaddle ships).
    But under pressure from some biased researchers , rigvedian arian's mode of life was correlated to the undeveloped andronovans mode of life(only because of the chariots). I doubt that the developed harrapians were not familiar with chariots, despite the paucity of finds.
    Their figurines show that Harappan's knew chariots.
    Chariots are also depicted in cave art but no one knows their age.

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