Page 3 of 15 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 142

Thread: Haplogroup N: Zone of Origin & Early Dispersals [split]

  1. #21
    Administrator
    Posts
    4,104
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R2a*-M124 (L295-)
    mtDNA (M)
    D4j5*

    England United Kingdom England
    Thread split from here.

    As directed by a moderator, please keep the discussion herein on topic ladies and gentlemen. Any further off-topic posts or comments will be handled by the administration as appropriate.

  2. #22
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,383
    Sex
    Location
    Australia
    Ethnicity
    Italian Alpine
    Nationality
    Australian and Italian
    Y-DNA (P)
    T1a2b- BY143483
    mtDNA (M)
    H95a1
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-S8172
    mtDNA (P)
    T2b17

    Australia Italy Veneto Friuli Italy Trentino Alto Adige Italy Ladinia Austria Tirol
    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    So the NO-M214 (xM231, xM175) depicted in the figure at post 146 is on the N side above M231 but positive for some other SNP at the N level?

    I see some NO-M214 (xM231, xM175) in the Trejaut et al. paper too:


    for my marker , we clearly see , it split-off in western indian/balochi area , while L kept heading East


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-L22 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

  3. #23
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,383
    Sex
    Location
    Australia
    Ethnicity
    Italian Alpine
    Nationality
    Australian and Italian
    Y-DNA (P)
    T1a2b- BY143483
    mtDNA (M)
    H95a1
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-S8172
    mtDNA (P)
    T2b17

    Australia Italy Veneto Friuli Italy Trentino Alto Adige Italy Ladinia Austria Tirol


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-L22 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

  4. #24
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    2,719
    Sex

    Unfortunately, that study directly sampled only East Asians, and tested only four reliable SNPs: M231, Tat, P43, and M128. (It also tested the misleadingly useless LLY22g, which we now know has back-mutated multiple times.) The study openly admits that the alleged N-M231* is "younger than expected, likely as a result of yet-to-be-identified individuals having derived N-M231 sub-haplogroup when new Y SNP markers are uncovered in the future."

    Thus, the study's basic conclusion (the origin of N in southern China) rests entirely on 7 Y-STRs measured on the alleged N-LLY22g* of East Asia only. The study made no attempt to discover a new SNP that would characterize this paragroup; nor did the study test P189 or L732, which were on the ISOGG haplotree (and unfairly criticized by a hasty and uninformed blogger) by the time of the study's publication.
    Last edited by lgmayka; 11-12-2014 at 09:02 PM.

  5. #25
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,383
    Sex
    Location
    Australia
    Ethnicity
    Italian Alpine
    Nationality
    Australian and Italian
    Y-DNA (P)
    T1a2b- BY143483
    mtDNA (M)
    H95a1
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-S8172
    mtDNA (P)
    T2b17

    Australia Italy Veneto Friuli Italy Trentino Alto Adige Italy Ladinia Austria Tirol
    Quote Originally Posted by lgmayka View Post
    Unfortunately, that study directly sampled only East Asians, and tested only four reliable SNPs: M231, Tat, P43, and M128. (It also tested the misleadingly useless LLY22g, which we now know has back-mutated multiple times.) The study openly admits that the alleged N-M231* is "younger than expected, likely as a result of yet-to-be-identified individuals having derived N-M231 sub-haplogroup when new Y SNP markers are uncovered in the future."

    Thus, the study's basic conclusion (the origin of N in southern China) rests entirely on 7 Y-STRs measured on the alleged N-LLY22g* of East Asia only. The study made no attempt to discover a new SNP that would characterize this paragroup; nor did the study test P189 or L732, which were on the ISOGG haplotree (and unfairly criticized by a hasty and uninformed blogger) by the time of the study's publication.
    Well, Basal N-M231 is origin of N which is Asia

    You are referring to N1 , ......N1 is not a basal marker ofr the origin of N

    N1-LLY22g came from its parent N-M231 is this not the case?
    Granted the scenario is that N-M231 migrated from asia and went elsewhere to mutate in N1 .

    The paper is correct in its origin of N, you have only left out the letter 1 . that is to make N1-LLy22g .

    The new format of removing the number from N1 to N is clearly confusing many people into thinking an origin of a Haplogroup is in a different place


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-L22 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

  6. #26
    Administrator
    Posts
    1,920
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-Z12
    mtDNA (M)
    I3b (FMS)

    All members are reminded to keep the tone of their posts civil and to refrain from personal attacks. This thread is being monitored.

  7. #27
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    2,719
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    Well, Basal N-M231 is origin of N which is Asia
    N-M231 is indeed defined to be the basal N. Most presume its origin to be somewhere in Asia (a big place!), although we don't really know for certain without some 20,000-year-old examples of N.
    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    You are referring to N1 , ......N1 is not a basal marker ofr the origin of N

    N1-LLY22g came from its parent N-M231 is this not the case?
    We now know that LLY22g has back-mutated multiple times, and should not be used for phylogenetic purposes. Ignore it.
    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    Granted the scenario is that N-M231 migrated from asia and went elsewhere to mutate in N1 .
    Our best information right now is that N-M231 split into two subclades which became N-Y6503 and N-Z4762. (See YFull's haplotree.) So far, N-Y6503 has been found only in Europe (including the Great Hungarian Plain of the 9th century B.C.).

    N-Z4762 split into two subclades which became N-F2905 and N-L729. N-F2905 has been reported in Eastern Europe, South India, China, Vietnam, and Korea. N-L729 spawned all of N-Tat, N-P43, and N-M128 (the three SNPs tested by the aforementioned study) and is therefore present all across Eurasia.
    Last edited by lgmayka; 11-12-2014 at 10:26 PM.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to lgmayka For This Useful Post:

     vettor (11-12-2014)

  9. #28
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,383
    Sex
    Location
    Australia
    Ethnicity
    Italian Alpine
    Nationality
    Australian and Italian
    Y-DNA (P)
    T1a2b- BY143483
    mtDNA (M)
    H95a1
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-S8172
    mtDNA (P)
    T2b17

    Australia Italy Veneto Friuli Italy Trentino Alto Adige Italy Ladinia Austria Tirol
    Quote Originally Posted by lgmayka View Post
    N-M231 is indeed defined to be the basal N. Most presume its origin to be somewhere in Asia (a big place!), although we don't really know for certain without some 20,000-year-old examples of N.

    We now know that LLY22g has back-mutated multiple times, and should not be used for phylogenetic purposes. Ignore it.

    Our best information right now is that N-M231 split into two subclades which became N-Y6503 and N-Z4762. (See YFull's haplotree.) So far, N-Y6503 has been found only in Europe (including the Great Hungarian Plain of the 9th century B.C.).

    N-Z4762 split into two subclades which became N-F2905 and N-L729. N-F2905 has been reported in Eastern Europe, South India, China, Vietnam, and Korea. N-L729 spawned all of N-Tat, N-P43, and N-M128 (the three SNPs tested by the aforementioned study) and is therefore present all across Eurasia.
    If we look at the proposed new N tree

    https://sites.google.com/site/compositeytree/n

    then ..................make you own conclusions


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-L22 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

  10. #29
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    2,719
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    If we look at the proposed new N tree

    https://sites.google.com/site/compositeytree/n
    That is Ray Banks' attempt at a tree. As far as I know, he has absolutely no special knowledge or interest in N-P189, N-L732, or indeed haplogroup N in general. Ray's hands are more than full with haplogroups G and C--as I am sure he would tell you himself.

    In short, his tree is woefully incorrect. The most up-to-date haplotree for N is, once again, YFull's. YFull has actually examined the BAM files of 3 N-P189 men (plus the ancient Hungarian).
    Last edited by lgmayka; 11-13-2014 at 01:26 AM.

  11. #30
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,383
    Sex
    Location
    Australia
    Ethnicity
    Italian Alpine
    Nationality
    Australian and Italian
    Y-DNA (P)
    T1a2b- BY143483
    mtDNA (M)
    H95a1
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-S8172
    mtDNA (P)
    T2b17

    Australia Italy Veneto Friuli Italy Trentino Alto Adige Italy Ladinia Austria Tirol
    Quote Originally Posted by lgmayka View Post
    That is Ray Banks' attempt at a tree. As far as I know, he has absolutely no special knowledge or interest in N-P189, N-L732, or indeed haplogroup N in general. Ray's hands are more than full with haplogroups G and C--as I am sure he would tell you himself.

    In short, his tree is woefully incorrect. The most up-to-date haplotree for N is, once again, YFull's. YFull has actually examined the BAM files of 3 N-P189 men (plus the ancient Hungarian).
    Ok, for Y_Full for N if you say

    but Y-Full does not do my marker any good as I fall in 2 lines
    note- I have never done Y-Full, but have everyone of my positive and negative markers.

    In the end the N basal is Asian , the N1 could be or is elsewhere


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-L22 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

Page 3 of 15 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Origin of haplogroup I2 in Balkans
    By 167273 in forum I2-M438
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 02-06-2020, 12:23 PM
  2. Geographical origin of Q1a-b split
    By Afshar in forum Q
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-11-2017, 08:26 AM
  3. Replies: 141
    Last Post: 12-17-2016, 06:03 PM
  4. Ancestral origin and Haplogroup origin
    By Smilelover in forum FTDNA
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-17-2016, 10:26 AM
  5. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-30-2015, 08:48 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •