Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: U152> L2> Z258,Z367,Z384> L20,Z383,CTS1939,PF129> CTS9733=C(back mutation)> 7702178 e

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    134
    Sex
    Omitted
    Location
    ancestral from village Civenna, Como Italy
    Ethnicity
    Lombard (Longobardi?)
    Nationality
    Italilan
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152+ L20+ CTS9733+
    mtDNA (M)
    H5

    Italy Italy Veneto

    U152> L2> Z258,Z367,Z384> L20,Z383,CTS1939,PF129> CTS9733=C(back mutation)> 7702178 e

    Ciao,
    some help please..
    we are L2+ L20+ CTS9733-
    and kit N9198 and 183488 in U152 project

    I am Belgieri..

    And all Belgeri / Belgieri /Bolgeri are ancestral from same valley/villages in North Italy - Lumbardy - vill. Civenna Barni etc.

    All Bolgeri / Belgieri / Belgeri we are 11-12 GD ... 111 STR..

    Today arrived the BIG Y results from other Mr.Belgeri.


    Now there are 6 diff. SNP in Mr. Belgeri e not in me Belgieri

    15509238
    16866340
    16890437
    16891443
    22436108
    28802526

    What do you think about... 600 or 900 years old MRCA?


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death
    Black death year 1345 + 670 years ?
    year 1350 was the ancestral origin of Bolgeri surname?
    Our ancestor Bolgeri was the survivor of the Black death in a little village?
    Hyp.
    Thanks..


    P.S.
    The no. 8 novel SNP in the subclade

    That Mr. Rocca discover as new SNP subclade U152> L2> Z258,Z367,Z384> L20,Z383,CTS1939,PF129> CTS9733=C(back mutation)> 7702178 et al.

    7702178(G/A), 9882218(G/A), 14543554(A/T), 14590597(T/C), 18684555(C/G), 21605188(A/G), 23301577(T/C), 23758887(C/T)

    All are in the kit N9198 Belgieri and Kit 183488 Belgeri...

    Hurray!

    no. 6 novel variants found in 183488 Big Y results and not in N9198 results. (N.B. 73 + 6 = 79 novel variants Kit 183488)

    15509238 T G High
    16866340 T C High
    16890437 A G High
    16891443 C A High
    22436108 G C High
    28802526 A T High

    no. 21 Novel variants in Belgieri N9198 and not in Belgeri 183488 (73 + 21 = 94 novel variants Kit N9198)

    13271933 T A High
    13887944 C A High
    14630342 T C High
    14630357 T C High
    15824887 A T High
    16393249 T A High
    16494396 T G High
    16891447 C A High
    19108279 G A High
    21853937 T C High
    22228460 C T High
    22316451 C G High
    22460597 C A High
    23896250 A C High
    26123300 C T High
    2708780 C G High
    9239350 T C High
    9296025 G A High
    9374685 G C High
    9973685 T C High
    9992071 A C Medium
    Last edited by Bolgeris; 01-09-2015 at 12:48 AM.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Bolgeris For This Useful Post:

     R.Rocca (01-13-2015)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    134
    Sex
    Omitted
    Location
    ancestral from village Civenna, Como Italy
    Ethnicity
    Lombard (Longobardi?)
    Nationality
    Italilan
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152+ L20+ CTS9733+
    mtDNA (M)
    H5

    Italy Italy Veneto
    P.S.
    Of 6 novel variants for kit 183488 respects to kit N9198 only 4 are stable:

    15509238 - 16866340 - 16890437 - 16891443.

    Whereas only 11 novel variants of 21 are stable in kit N9198 than in kit 183488:

    13887944 - 15824887 - 16393249 - 16891447 - 19108279 - 21853937 - 222284690 - 22460597 - 23896250 - 2708780 - 9973685.
    Last edited by Bolgeris; 01-10-2015 at 03:53 PM.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Bolgeris For This Useful Post:

     R.Rocca (01-13-2015)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    134
    Sex
    Omitted
    Location
    ancestral from village Civenna, Como Italy
    Ethnicity
    Lombard (Longobardi?)
    Nationality
    Italilan
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152+ L20+ CTS9733+
    mtDNA (M)
    H5

    Italy Italy Veneto
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolgeris View Post
    P.S.
    Of 6 novel variants for kit 183488 respects to kit N9198 only 4 are stable:

    15509238 - 16866340 - 16890437 - 16891443.

    Whereas only 11 novel variants of 21 are stable in kit N9198 than in kit 183488:

    13887944 - 15824887 - 16393249 - 16891447 - 19108279 - 21853937 - 222284690 - 22460597 - 23896250 - 2708780 - 9973685.
    Belgeri / Belgieri GD 11 / 111 STR - 73 shared novel variants - Total 27 novel variants (Big y Ftdna) but only stable 15 novel SNP (11+4)!
    Belgeri / Drouillard GD 31 / 111 STR - 59 shared novel variants - Total 49 novel variants SNP
    ... Belgieri / Drouillard GD 35 / 111 STR - 61 shared novel variants - total 60 novel variants.

    Belgeri / Woodruff GD 36 / 111 STR - 54 shared novel variants -Total 59 novel variants SNP ... Belgieri / Woodruff GD 36 / 111 STR - 58 shared novel variants - total 66 novel variants.
    Belgeri / Bowlings GD 33 /111 STR - 51 shared novel variants - Total 105 novel variants SNP .. Belgieri / Bowlings GD 32 / 111 STR - 55 shared novel variants - total 112 novel variants.
    Belgeri / Erikson GD 38 / 111 STR - 52 shared novel variants - Total 53 novel variants .. Belgieri / Erikson GD 40 / 111 STR - 56 shared novel variants - total 60 novel variants.

    What do you think?
    Ciao.
    Last edited by Bolgeris; 01-13-2015 at 08:30 PM.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Bolgeris For This Useful Post:

     R.Rocca (01-13-2015)

  7. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,775
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Ethnicity
    Italo-Iberian
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U152+L2+FGC10543
    mtDNA (M)
    H4a1-T152C!

    United States of America Italy 1861-1946 Spain
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolgeris View Post
    Belgeri / Belgieri GD 11 / 111 STR - 73 shared novel variants - Total 27 novel variants (Big y Ftdna) but only stable 15 novel SNP (11+4)!
    Belgeri / Drouillard GD 31 / 111 STR - 59 shared novel variants - Total 49 novel variants SNP
    ... Belgieri / Drouillard GD 35 / 111 STR - 61 shared novel variants - total 60 novel variants.

    Belgeri / Woodruff GD 36 / 111 STR - 54 shared novel variants -Total 59 novel variants SNP ... Belgieri / Woodruff GD 36 / 111 STR - 58 shared novel variants - total 66 novel variants.
    Belgeri / Bowlings GD 33 /111 STR - 51 shared novel variants - Total 105 novel variants SNP .. Belgieri / Bowlings GD 32 / 111 STR - 55 shared novel variants - total 112 novel variants.
    Belgeri / Erikson GD 38 / 111 STR - 52 shared novel variants - Total 53 novel variants .. Belgieri / Erikson GD 40 / 111 STR - 56 shared novel variants - total 60 novel variants.

    What do you think?
    Ciao.
    Even though FTDNA classifies many of the shared novel variants as "High" or "Medium" quality, the vast majority of them are not stable enough because they occur across many haplogroups. In reality, the "Bolgeri Cluster" is made up of the following eight SNPs:

    2716389(G>T)
    7035007(A>G)
    7610792(T>C)
    18174420(G>A)
    19047535(T>G)
    19225354(G>T)
    21035569(T>C)
    22293979(C>A)

    You can find the latest U152 Tree here: www.r1b.org/docs/FTDNA_U152_Project_Tree.xlsx
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to R.Rocca For This Useful Post:

     Acque agitate (01-13-2015),  Agamemnon (01-14-2015),  Bolgeris (01-13-2015)

  9. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    134
    Sex
    Omitted
    Location
    ancestral from village Civenna, Como Italy
    Ethnicity
    Lombard (Longobardi?)
    Nationality
    Italilan
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152+ L20+ CTS9733+
    mtDNA (M)
    H5

    Italy Italy Veneto
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    Even though FTDNA classifies many of the shared novel variants as "High" or "Medium" quality, the vast majority of them are not stable enough because they occur across many haplogroups. In reality, the "Bolgeri Cluster" is made up of the following eight SNPs:

    2716389(G>T)
    7035007(A>G)
    7610792(T>C)
    18174420(G>A)
    19047535(T>G)
    19225354(G>T)
    21035569(T>C)
    22293979(C>A)

    You can find the latest U152 Tree here: www.r1b.org/docs/FTDNA_U152_Project_Tree.xlsx
    Thank you very much..
    So these 8 SNPs, that we "Bolgeri" we have in common, are those that unite the "Bolgeri" cluster and distancing them from Drouillard ..

    At least according to what I can deduce ...

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Bolgeris For This Useful Post:

     R.Rocca (01-14-2015)

  11. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    134
    Sex
    Omitted
    Location
    ancestral from village Civenna, Como Italy
    Ethnicity
    Lombard (Longobardi?)
    Nationality
    Italilan
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152+ L20+ CTS9733+
    mtDNA (M)
    H5

    Italy Italy Veneto
    After accurate control with Yfull ... the results:

    Cluster Bolgeri / Drouillard 10 SNP differents from iberian HG01767

    7702178
    9882218
    14543554 class. Y11786 for yfull
    14590597
    18684555 class. Y11787 for yfull
    21605188 class. Y11788 for Yfull
    23301577
    23758887
    4841589
    14463704


    Cluster "Bolgeri" (Belgeri YF02864 and Belgieri YF01754) no. 9 news SNP
    :

    2716389
    7035007
    7610792
    18174420
    19047535
    19225354
    21035569
    22293979
    13887944 class. Y11785 for Yfull

    New 5 SNP in Belgeri YF02864 and not in Belgieri YF01754:

    14168233
    15509238
    16866340
    16890437
    16891443

    New 11 SNP in Belgieri YF01754 and not in Belgeri YF02864:

    15824887
    16393249
    16891447
    19108279
    21853937
    22460597
    23896250
    2708780
    9973685
    2708761
    19479106

    What do you think ?

    Total 19 SNP diff. with other iberian CTS9733 HG01767....

    from YFULL

    R-CTS9733CTS9733/S3856formed 3800 ybp, TMRCA 3600 ybp
    R-CTS9733*
    id:HG01767IBS
    R-Y11785Y11786 * Y11787 * Y11788... 1 SNPs formed 3600 ybp, TMRCA 1150 ybp
    id:YF01754ITA [IT-CO]
    id:YF02864ITA [IT-CO]new
    Last edited by Bolgeris; 02-24-2015 at 06:33 PM.

  12. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    134
    Sex
    Omitted
    Location
    ancestral from village Civenna, Como Italy
    Ethnicity
    Lombard (Longobardi?)
    Nationality
    Italilan
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152+ L20+ CTS9733+
    mtDNA (M)
    H5

    Italy Italy Veneto
    After new accurate control with Yfull ... the results:

    Cluster Bolgeri / Drouillard 10 SNP differents from iberian HG01767

    7702178 class. Y12489 for YFull
    9882218 class. Y12494 for YFull
    14543554 class. Y11786 for yfull
    14590597 class. Y12486 for YFull
    18684555 class. Y11787 for yfull
    21605188 class. Y11788 for Yfull
    23301577 class. Y12487 for YFull
    23758887 class. Y12493 for YFull
    4841589 class. Y12491 for YFull
    14463704 class. Y12492 for YFull


    Cluster "Bolgeri" (Belgeri YF02864 and Belgieri YF01754) no. 7 news SNP for YFull + 2 other SNP (Total 9 SNP?):

    2716389 class. Y12490 for YFull
    7035007 class. Y12485 for YFull
    7610792 class. Y12488 for YFull
    18174420 class. Y12495 for YFull
    19047535.........YFC061718...............
    19225354 class. Y12496 for YFull
    21035569 class. Y12497 for YFull
    22293979.........YFC071321.................
    13887944 class. Y11785 for Yfull

    New 5 SNP in Belgeri YF02864 and not in Belgieri YF01754:

    14168233
    15509238
    16866340
    16890437
    16891443

    New 11 SNP in Belgieri YF01754 and not in Belgeri YF02864:

    15824887
    16393249
    16891447
    19108279
    21853937
    22460597
    23896250
    2708780
    9973685
    2708761
    19479106

    What do you think ?

    Total 10+7 or 10+ 9 SNP diff. with other iberian CTS9733: HG01767....

    from YFULL total 17 new SNP.. in the cluster

    Ciao.

    Giuseppe Belgieri
    FtDna Kit N9198
    YFull kit Y01754

  13. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    134
    Sex
    Omitted
    Location
    ancestral from village Civenna, Como Italy
    Ethnicity
    Lombard (Longobardi?)
    Nationality
    Italilan
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152+ L20+ CTS9733+
    mtDNA (M)
    H5

    Italy Italy Veneto

    Red face

    Ftdna changed finally my class.. from L20 to FGC17181

    Your Confirmed Haplogroup is R-FGC17181

    clade L20 : L20+ and Z383+

    Clade CTS9733 : CTS7933 and YSC0000193+

    Clade FGC17199 : FGC17199+,

    Clade FGC17185: FGC17185+, FGC17189+, FGC17203+, FGC17186+, FGC17190+, FGC17194+,


    ?? Cluster Bolgeri / Drouillard 10 SNP differents from iberian HG01767

    7702178 class. Y12489 for YFull = FGC17185
    9882218 class. Y12494 for YFull = FGC17186
    14543554 class. Y11786 for yfull = FGC17189
    14590597 class. Y12486 for YFull = FGC17190
    18684555 class. Y11787 for yfull = FGC17194
    21605188 class. Y11788 for Yfull = FGC17199
    23301577 class. Y12487 for YFull = FGC17203
    23758887 class. Y12493 for YFull = FGC17204
    4841589 class. Y12491 for YFull = FGC17182
    14463704 class. Y12492 for YFull = ?

    Clade FGC17181 "Bolgeri cluster?": FGC17181+, FGC17183+, FGC17184+, FGC17188+, FGC17193+, FGC17196+,

    ?? Cluster "Bolgeri" (Belgeri YF02864 and Belgieri YF01754) no. 7 news SNP for YFull + 2 other SNP (Total 9 SNP?):

    2716389 class. Y12490 for YFull = FGC17181
    7035007 class. Y12485 for YFull = FGC17183
    7610792 class. Y12488 for YFull = FGC17184
    18174420 class. Y12495 for YFull = FGC17193
    19047535.........YFC061718...............
    19225354 class. Y12496 for YFull = FGC17196
    21035569 class. Y12497 for YFull = FGC17198
    22293979.........YFC071321.................
    13887944 class. Y11785 for Yfull = FGC17188

    class. for Yfull

    R-CTS9733 : YSC0000193 CTS9733 S3856
    R-Y11785 : FGC17203 Y12487 FGC17182 Y12491 FGC17189 Y11786 FGC17198 Y12497 FGC17204 Y12493 Y12492 FGC17199 Y11788 FGC17190 Y12486 FGC17183 Y12485 FGC17186 Y12494 FGC17188 Y11785 FGC17194 Y11787 FGC17181 Y12490 FGC17185 Y12489 FGC17193 Y12495 FGC17196 Y12496 FGC17184 Y12488
    Last edited by Bolgeris; 03-28-2016 at 10:23 AM.

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bolgeris For This Useful Post:

     palamede (03-31-2016),  wombatofthenorth (04-13-2016)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 43
    Last Post: 11-11-2019, 03:42 PM
  2. R-U152>L2>Z367>Z34>CTS9044?
    By alchemist223 in forum L2
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-14-2019, 05:58 PM
  3. R-U152>R-L2>R-Z367>R-Z34>R-CTS9044?
    By alchemist223 in forum R1b-U152
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-18-2018, 11:40 PM
  4. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-10-2016, 08:18 PM
  5. U152+ Z367+ in the Netherlands
    By R.Rocca in forum R1b-U152
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-21-2013, 11:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •