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Thread: 23 andme and German ancestry.

  1. #1
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    23 andme and German ancestry.

    Hi, according to my family sourses i should be either 1\4 or 1\8 Baltic German and rest is russian, however 23andme give me different results with high Broadly Northern Euro, i heared that 23andme is generally bad in determining german ancesty, so is possible that all my German has gone to Broadly Northern Euro, or is it something else?


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  3. #2
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    Tactical bump

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    I would say probably yes. I don't know much about how people of your particular ancestry usually work out in their Ancestry Composition, but I know that Dutch people seem to get an equal mix of British&Irish, French&German and Scandinavian, and many other populations also seem to get divided between their major reference populations if they're in between.

    23andMe has pretty much admitted to having difficulties identifying French and German ancestry. It's one of the less reliable groups in their AC.
    GEDmatch kits:
    M606752 (23andMe)
    F367588 (FTDNA)

    ySearch & mitoSearch: DK8FB

    FTDNA kit: 367588

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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salkin View Post
    I would say probably yes. I don't know much about how people of your particular ancestry usually work out in their Ancestry Composition, but I know that Dutch people seem to get an equal mix of British&Irish, French&German and Scandinavian, and many other populations also seem to get divided between their major reference populations if they're in between.

    23andMe has pretty much admitted to having difficulties identifying French and German ancestry. It's one of the less reliable groups in their AC.
    They should divide big nations like France or Germany into subregions based on samples with clearly established origins several generations in the past. I don't have the feeling it's difficult to establish French ancestry. My French wife, her father and another relative were tested and they always got clearly French on top with GEDmatch calculators. In my case, above all North German ancestry, it's a little bit more complicated. I got North German as well as Dutch, Irish or Scottish, but never France close to the top. Northwestern Europeans are very close in many cases, but this is logic taking into account known migration history in the region (Anglo Saxons moving to Britain, Irish and Scots moving to Germany, Dutch/Flemings moving to Northern Germany, Vikings ...). It's ridiculous to consider France as Northern European. Southern parts of the country are clearly South European.
    Known ancestry: 92.6% German (66.8% North German), 4.7% Danish, 1.8% Czech, 0.8% Austrian, 0.1% Swiss.
    EUROGENES K13: N German, N Dutch, DNK, SWE, NOR. Ancestry: Germanic 99%, Baltic 1%. LM: NOR, DNK, NLD, N-DEU, SWE.
    23andMe: NW Europe 82.5% (French/German 50.2%, Scandinavian 9.1%, British/Irish 3.2%), East Europe 11.5%, South Europe 1.5%. DNAL: NW Euro 81%, NE Euro 11%, Med 6.5%
    Y-DNA: R1b/U152/Z36/CTS4333, Thuringia 1634, probably Alsace 1552, -- mt-DNA: H

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  8. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CelticGerman View Post
    They should divide big nations like France or Germany into subregions based on samples with clearly established origins several generations in the past. I don't have the feeling it's difficult to establish French ancestry. My French wife, her father and another relative were tested and they always got clearly French on top with GEDmatch calculators. In my case, above all North German ancestry, it's a little bit more complicated. I got North German as well as Dutch, Irish or Scottish, but never France close to the top. Northwestern Europeans are very close in many cases, but this is logic taking into account known migration history in the region (Anglo Saxons moving to Britain, Irish and Scots moving to Germany, Dutch/Flemings moving to Northern Germany, Vikings ...). It's ridiculous to consider France as Northern European. Southern parts of the country are clearly South European.
    Yeah, it always seemed to me that combining French & German is a good way to make the Ancestry Composition a lot less useful. I don't think they would have had too much of a problem making a French component, or maybe even a northern & southern French one, and it would be a lot more useful for everyone - especially their main customer base, of whom a large amount have considerable German and also some degree of French ancestry.
    Y-DNA: I1* (Ware, Hertfordshire)
    MT-DNA: U5a1b4 (Boughton Aluph, Kent)
    Father's MT-DNA: J1c8 (Wolverhampton, Staffordshire)
    Grandfather's MT-DNA: H1b (Littlehampton, Sussex)

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  10. #6
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    I would say it's mostly gone to Eastern European and Broadly Northern European, especially as my brother and myself have 5.1% and 6.1% F&G each respectively.

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  12. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglecynn View Post
    Yeah, it always seemed to me that combining French & German is a good way to make the Ancestry Composition a lot less useful. I don't think they would have had too much of a problem making a French component, or maybe even a northern & southern French one, and it would be a lot more useful for everyone - especially their main customer base, of whom a large amount have considerable German and also some degree of French ancestry.
    I think it is difficult to find typical French or German components!
    The components found in France and Germany are also found all over Europe. This is the problem of countries that have been the crossroads in the migration of European peoples!

    A French or a German can be found by the proportion of the components (method of the admixture calculators) but not by a particular component ( (method of DNA testing companies)
    Y haplogroup: R1b: L21 --> DF13 --> BY145002
    The oldest L21 known are I2457 et I2565 from Stonehenge (Beaker Culture, 2400-1900 BC)

    MTDNA: U4c1
    The oldest U4c1 known are "poz224", Yamnaya culture (2882-2698 BC), and 2 Bell-Beaker in Germany (Karsdorf, 2314-2042 BC)

    Paternal MTDNA: K1b2b
    The oldest K1b2 are Eastern European Mesolithic: Kunda Donkalnis5 (Lithuania), 6000 BC and Meso-Ene Lepenski Vir Lepe28 in Serbia, 5900 BC.
    The oldest K1b2b is Alt-3, Corded-Ware Germany (2500 BC)

  13. #8
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    Hi!
    I classify myself PA Dutch (German) and mainly colonial. My self estimate is 65%-70% German. I get 46.6% German with 28.8% broadly Northern Euro. I'd guess 20% of that is German. The French/German category has a very low recall rate 6% I think. Meaning they can miss up to 94%.

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  15. #9
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    Ron from Pa yep your pretty close to 23andme's quote!
    In the worst case, the French & German population, the recall is 8%, meaning that 92% of the actual French & German DNA was not labeled as such
    https://www.23andme.com/ancestry_composition_guide/

    I thought that I would have scored much higher in this category myself as my mother's maternal side has some pretty extensive German ancestry which is Colonial and a little more recent to the U.S. from the 1800s. I only have 5.7% French and German in Speculative. I have none in standard and conservative! My mom also has none in conservative and standard. She gets a whole 3.3% in Speculative! Yet my split view indicates my 5.7% is all from her.

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  17. #10
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    I must match really well with the samples they have. I've read many comments on threads similar to yours and the lack of German showing up.

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