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Thread: Those of European descent, lets see if we can figure out this South Asian thing...

  1. #1
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    Those of European descent, lets see if we can figure out this South Asian thing...

    I really would like to pin down the South Asian (Indian) component in those of us from British descent. As many have noticed, Northwest Europeans tend to have more of this component than other Europeans and it is something that has interested me since the first time I uploaded my data to Gedmatch. Note that I show ZERO South Asian on 23andme's ancestry composition and also only show European on FTDNA's MyOrigins, but I will start by posting my South Asian scores for various Gedmatch calculators as well as my result from DNAtribes. All of these numbers are higher than the averages for my respective ancestral populations. (British, French, German, Dutch)

    Harapaworld: 1.27%
    Eurogenes K13: 3.25%
    Dodecad V3: 2.45%
    MDLPK 23b: 1.67%
    DNA Tribes: Gangetic North-Central India 6.4% and Brahmin Andhra Pradesh India: 1.7%
    23andme: 0%
    FTDNA: 0%

    Would anyone else be interested in putting forth theories as to why some of us have these higher numbers, and also why they don't show on 23andme? I originally suspected that it was simply an ancient remnant found in Northwest Europeans, kind of like a sticky spot that has just continued to mix over and over in that population and if anyone else feels the same than lets discuss that. Any input at all is appreciated.

    PS: Contrary to the title, all others are welcome to as well
    Last edited by SwampThing27; 01-25-2015 at 08:29 PM.

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  3. #2
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    I am maybe 15%-20% English/Irish/Scottish and pretty low on the South Asian. The rest is Continental West Europe or unknown. I am excluding Southeast Asia and Southwest Asia as different and using South Indian as the number where the calculator calls it that:

    Geno 2.0 - 0%
    FTDNA Origins - 0%
    MDLP K23b - 0%
    Eurogenes K13 - 0.64%
    Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 - 0.24%
    Dodecad K12b - 0.45%
    Dodecad World9 - 0.67%
    Dodecad Globe13 - 0.76%
    HarappaWorld - 0.22%

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  5. #3
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    I think Gedrosian is the real connection. The South Asian components are usually a mix of ANE, ENF, ASI, and Oceanian. Since Archaic admixture can show up as ASI or Oceanian (especially Denisovan and Oceanian), it could be that which is gravitating towards South Asian in non-South Asians. Europeans already have ANE/ENF. There might be a connection between primitive WHG/ANE and Oceanian or even ASI.
    Paternal - Y-DNA: J2b2* (J-M241) Z2432+ Z2433+ Y978+ (J2b2a2b1*) (Hidden Content ) (YFull: YF02959) (FTDNA Kit B6225), mtDNA: M18a* (FTDNA Kit 329180) (YFull: YF63773)
    Maternal- Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2d5a* L657+ Y7+ (R-Y16494*) (FTDNA Kit 311047) (YFull: YF68408), mtDNA: Hidden Content (FTDNA Kit B6225) (YFull: YF02959) (Mother's Mother's Father: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2* Y7+ Y29+ (R-Y29*) (FTDNA Kit 329181) (YFull: YF65256))

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_McNinja View Post
    I think Gedrosian is the real connection. The South Asian components are usually a mix of ANE, ENF, ASI, and Oceanian. Since Archaic admixture can show up as ASI or Oceanian (especially Denisovan and Oceanian), it could be that which is gravitating towards South Asian in non-South Asians. Europeans already have ANE/ENF. There might be a connection between primitive WHG/ANE and Oceanian or even ASI.
    My Gedrosia or similar results from those calculators that call it out:

    Dodecad K12b - 6.31%
    MDLP K23b - 4.40%
    HarappaWorld - 7.15%

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampThing27 View Post
    ...
    Would anyone else be interested in putting forth theories as to why some of us have these higher numbers, and also why they don't show on 23andme? I originally suspected that it was simply an ancient remnant found in Northwest Europeans, kind of like a sticky spot that has just continued to mix over and over in that population and if anyone else feels the same than lets discuss that. Any input at all is appreciated.

    PS: Contrary to the title, all others are welcome to as well
    Romany ancestry could be the source of the South Indian.
    My father is the opposite...he has south Indian on 23andme and near eastern on myorigins. He is a unique case though because he has known ancestors from India...2.3% of ancestry. He also has currently unknown romany ancestry as he shares the same autosomal segments with individuals from Britain, Sweden, and Romania...all having Romany ancestors.
    37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    Hidden Content

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    ftDNA: 0% (11% British, 85% Western & Central European)
    23andme 0.1% South Asian (62.0% British, 36.4% Northern European)

    HarappaWorld: 0.14%
    Eurogenes K13: 0.42%
    Dodecad V3: 0.07%
    MDLP K23b: 0.18%
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    Could the Baloch/south Indian admixture in Europe be linked to the Indo-Europeans or Steppe Migrations ?

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    I have not downloaded my raw data. I only took the FTDNA and Ancestry.com autosomal tests. FTDNA gives me 100% European. Ancestry gives me 98% European, plus 1% Caucasus and "<1%" South Asian. I notice that a few matches at Ancestry with trace South Asian seem to point to Wales. I also recall a match with S-A with someone with old Maryland connections. But I didn't try to keep track of all that on paper, etc.
    Last edited by Baltimore1937; 01-26-2015 at 10:14 AM.

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    Geno 2.0 - 0% for myself whilst my brother hasn't had this test done.
    FTDNA Origins - 0% for both of us.
    MDLP K23b - 0.07% for myself, 1.19% for my brother.
    Eurogenes K13 - 0.25% for myself, 1.75% for my brother.
    Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 - 0% for myself, 1.68% for my brother.
    Dodecad K12b - 0.27% for myself, 0.86% for my brother.
    Dodecad World9 - 1.3% for myself, 2.33% for my brother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen1986 View Post
    Geno 2.0 - 0% for myself whilst my brother hasn't had this test done.
    FTDNA Origins - 0% for both of us.
    MDLP K23b - 0.07% for myself, 1.19% for my brother.
    Eurogenes K13 - 0.25% for myself, 1.75% for my brother.
    Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 - 0% for myself, 1.68% for my brother.
    Dodecad K12b - 0.27% for myself, 0.86% for my brother.
    Dodecad World9 - 1.3% for myself, 2.33% for my brother.
    Well, in that case perhaps there isnt anything ancestrally specific about a higher South Asian score, since you and your brother obviously have the same ancestors. Maybe its just the way the DNA combined on some chunk of SNPs yo give a South Asian vibe. Or maybe a chunk that your brother inherited that you didnt.

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