David Reich lecture 9 February 2015

[Chad Rohlfsen]

Yeah that does make sense tome. Seems simple and logical. Logically too the equally latearrivalof farming in the isles and even in north Iberia might have seen locally much higher WHG input into the farmers there. We have such huge gaps in the ancient DNA database that we are probably barely seeing the complex variation based on timing,geography, size of existing hunter pop, marginality of the area to preconceived subsistence traditions etc in how the farmer-hunter interface played out across Europe. My guess though is that where farming was late and the location was environmentaly problematic to the preferred subsistence model of incoming farmers then the WHG absorbtion would be higher. The raised WHG in northern Spain might well simply reflect the fact that part of Spain didnt get farming until 2000 years later than the south or Portugal. IMO its ANE that really stands out as the prime indicator of population movement that crossed west of a Denmark-Moldova kind of line in the copper age.

I have questions about ANE even being in Denmark too! Ertrebolle should've mixed into those Northern German groups/TRB, but they still lack ANE. ANE might not have crossed the water.

[alan]

Actually that is new. Even though its similar to what David and Laz had surmised, the small differences might be relevant. This is the first time that Norway has topped the list for ANE for those given countries. Maybe a good deal of the ANE in modern Norway is derived from Mesolithic Scandinavians. This could also explain the unusually high levels of ANE in Northwest Europe, as opposed to northern Central Europe, as reflecting greater ancestry from mesolithic scandinavians and not necessarily greater or equal yamnaya ancestry. In short, the high ANE in Norway lowers the amount of yamnaya impact necessary for Northwestern Europe. (yamnaya still had a huge impact on northwest europe though!)

However, from my reading of the archaeological record, this doesnt explain the high ANE in the isles because Britain ceased to follow continental traditions after the Maglemosian type cultures and went its own way -probably as the North Sea between Britain and Denmark became less and less of a link. Pressure microblades only made it to Denmark and NW Germany after the Maglemosian. All in all I would read this as making a decent case for ANE to be present in continental Europe as far as north Germany by 7000BC but never making it to the isles. ASAI can see it seems likely that the isles hunters did not share ANE but the north Germanic zone of today,along with the Baltic area likely did. So, the isles would appear to owe its ANE to post-hunting times. The origin of the Neolithic in the isles is tricky but I do not expect a lot of absorbed ANE was brought by farmers to the isles - mainly because ANE was likely largely too far east but also because it the TRB zone only takes off around the same time as the first farmers arrived in SE England c. 4100BC so there wasnt really the time.

[alan]

No. Reich himself may not know. It has been submitted.

Jean- did they state that ANE was lined to R1a and b

[Jean M]

Does this mean Trypillians are not the source of the Near-Eastern-like genes in Yamna?

Unless Reich has Cucuteni-Tripolye samples, he cannot say that they are not the source. In his outline of the samples he did not include them. He seemed absolutely certain that the source had not come from Europe, but that must mean from the European farmer samples he has. It is a new source, different from EEF clearly. That could fit Cucuteni-Tripolye, as it seems that they were partly derived from dairy farmers whose ancestors brought with them the pressure-blade technology which may be linked to ANE. We must just wait and see.

[Jean M]

Jean- did they state that ANE was lined to R1a and b

This was a lecture by one man - Prof Reich. No 'they'. He said that R1a and R1b had travelled with the Indo-Europeans.* I cannot recall the exact form of words. On one slide, as I said, both CW and BB contained all three of his components. We know that there was R1b in BB in Germany. I really cannot tell you any more. He was not specific about the Y-DNA in Samara or Iberian Bell Beaker.

*Added: I have found my note. He said in the question session that Yamnaya had brought R1a and R1b to Europe.

[J Man]

From what you say Jean it does not seem like Reich mentioned which Y-DNA haplogroups have been found among the Yamnaya samples tested so far which is a pity. I am very confident though now that both R1a and R1b were probably present as Yamnaya were quite high in ANE which both R1a and R1b seem to be linked to. Oh and also there is the Indo-European connection.

[Piquerobi]

He said that R1a and R1b had travelled with the Indo-Europeans. I cannot recall the exact form of words.

Wow! One has to celebrate. During years, first Iberian, then Neolithic Anatolian, R1b had been misrepresented. The study of the clades shows clearly it spread fast, East to West, following the spread of IE languages (it could not be a coincidence!). Finally!

ps Not to mention Klyosov theory that it was North African!

[rms2]

This was a lecture by one man - Prof Reich. No 'they'. He said that R1a and R1b had travelled with the Indo-Europeans. I cannot recall the exact form of words. On one slide, as I said, both CW and BB contained all three of his components. We know that there was R1b in BB in Germany. I really cannot tell you any more.

Huge news, monumental even. It's been a long time coming.

I'll be glad when we can see the evidence behind what Reich said.

[nuadha]

@alan

The movement of Meso Scandinavian ANE to the british isles didn't need to happen at once; it could have happened all the way up through the viking age.

[rms2]

This was a lecture by one man - Prof Reich. No 'they'. He said that R1a and R1b had travelled with the Indo-Europeans.* I cannot recall the exact form of words. On one slide, as I said, both CW and BB contained all three of his components. We know that there was R1b in BB in Germany. I really cannot tell you any more. He was not specific about the Y-DNA in Samara or Iberian Bell Beaker.

*Added: I have found my note. He said in the question session that Yamnaya had brought R1a and R1b to Europe.

Hooray!!! Huzzah!!! And lots of stuff like that!

YES!!!

That is the best news I have heard in a long time! Wow!