Albanian DNA Project

[Kelmendasi]

There is a E1a-(M33, M132) project and I see one Abdullah Koc from Turkey, could he be with Albanian origin? He is assigned to the branch E-BY183919, which he shares with a person from Morocco, on a parallel branch are a German and a Swiss. This branch is rarer than the other found in Europe, including a Jewish branch. On YFULL the tree is not so developed, he must be under Y63256.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y63256/

Is it possible to compare STR to the Albanians?

https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults

I'll try look into it.

I matched an E1a-M132 Albanian from the town of Burrel in Mati on 23andme, he was assigned to E-M132>CTS736. On Yfull, this cluster's main downstream is CTS736>Y125757, which itself has two downstreams; CTS4038 and Z5992. CTS4038 is represented by an Arab from the city of Medina and a Yoruba from Nigeria, they share a TMRCA of ~4,600 ybp. Z5992 is represented by two samples from the island of Barbados, and are bound to be of African background.

I see on FTDNA that there are CTS736+ samples also from Algeria and the United States, with the latter seemingly being made up of African Americans.

[broder]

All we know with certainty is it moved from around Central & Central East Europe sometime between late antiquity and the early medieval. The problem is there is no one that matches this cluster outside of Albanians. Even in the Macedonia study which had a good amount of L1029 did not match the cluster outside of an Albanian from the same study. So, until some neighboring samples are found bridging the gap between L1029 and Y133383 to give us an idea of migration patterns, everything else is guesswork. Graves from the period in question would be helpful if something turned up. Also, not sure why you're going to the Strumjani who were in Eastern Macedonia and Bulgaria and no where near Albania. If it were Slavic tribes, there are plenty that settled and situated between West Macedonia/Albania that would be far more likely in the event that were the case. Still just guesswork at this point.

It's hard to say based on the scientific studies if any of those samples are within your cluster considering the low resolution. The marker that distinguishes you guys is not that stable of a marker and it's only one mutation that back mutated, that could have occured only after it got to Albania. There is a match from Eastern Ukraine btw, in Netea 2012 study - matches some of you perfectly on those limited markers. Also hard to say if there is any matches in the Serbian project, one of the biggest in the region, because they mostly test in Belgrade.


I mentioned Strumljani because of the family name recorded there, which makes sense.

[hartaisarlag]

Anyone have any intel on the Kosovar who just showed up at E-Y4972* on FTDNA's tree?

[eastara]

I'll try look into it.

I matched an E1a-M132 Albanian from the town of Burrel in Mati on 23andme, he was assigned to E-M132>CTS736. On Yfull, this cluster's main downstream is CTS736>Y125757, which itself has two downstreams; CTS4038 and Z5992. CTS4038 is represented by an Arab from the city of Medina and a Yoruba from Nigeria, they share a TMRCA of ~4,600 ybp. Z5992 is represented by two samples from the island of Barbados, and are bound to be of African background.

I see on FTDNA that there are CTS736+ samples also from Algeria and the United States, with the latter seemingly being made up of African Americans.

The picture gets more and more interesting, it seems one sample E1a2a1b1-L133 was found in the Koban culture - Iron age North Caucasus. It is mentioned even it is common for Iron Age Europe! I don't recollect any old E1a found in Europe, except being a mistake.
https://www.academia.edu/42778857/Mi...North_Caucasus

[Rrenjet.]

Suddenly it occurred to me that this solves the mystery of the 0.5 % Bulgarians found with the mysterious haplogroup E1-M96(xM35,xM2) in the Karachanak Y haplogroup study about 808 Bulgarians.

The E-M132 cluster is in fact quite interesting. Until now we have found it once in Golloborde (3% of our current sample of 33), three times further north-west in Bulqize, and once in the lowlands near Kruje, so it has a southern Gheg distribution. One of them has taken a high resolution test: he is under E-M132>L133>CTS736, but did not purchase YFull analysis. The STR diversity suggests this cluster started spreading in the Middle Ages, but at least one more high resolution test is needed to know for sure. I checked an E-M96 Bulgarian from Varna, and he is certainly not near the Albanian E-M132 cluster (he has DYS437=14, this cluster has DYS437=17 or 18, and there are many other differences). Neither is any of the haplotypes in E1a project.

I matched an E1a-M132 Albanian from the town of Burrel in Mati on 23andme, he was assigned to E-M132>CTS736

Thank you for mentioning, this re-affirms the southern Gheg spread.

Interestingly, R1b-Z2705 has yet to be found in the area. The only cluster under R1b-M269 to have been found so far is R1b-FGC40202 which is also found across Albanian-speaking regions. Personally however I do think R1b-Z2705 will for sure show up once more are tested.

I agree, it might appear soon, and we do have one R-Z2705>BY182782 member from Kumanove who should be originally from Zabzun. But it will most likely remain in atypically low frequency.

[eastara]

The E-M132 cluster is in fact quite interesting. Until now we have found it once in Golloborde (3% of our current sample of 33), three times further north-west in Bulqize, and once in the lowlands near Kruje, so it has a southern Gheg distribution. One of them has taken a high resolution test: he is under E-M132>L133>CTS736, but did not purchase YFull analysis. The STR diversity suggests this cluster started spreading in the Middle Ages, but at least one more high resolution test is needed to know for sure. I checked an E-M96 Bulgarian from Varna, and he is certainly not near the Albanian E-M132 cluster (he has DYS437=14, this cluster has DYS437=17 or 18, and there are many other differences). Neither is any of the haplotypes in E1a project.



Thank you for mentioning, this re-affirms the southern Gheg spread.



I agree, it might appear soon, and we do have one R-Z2705>BY182782 member from Kumanove who should be originally from Zabzun. But it will most likely remain in atypically low frequency.

Thank you, I have overlooked that there is one STR for the Bulgarian E-M96(xM2, M35) in Karachanak study. However, when I enter this in Nevgen, it gives me 91.62% chance, that this is E-V22. As DYS390 = 24 this could hardly be M132.
There are somewhat similar haplotypes E2-M75, but I suspect this is some kind of mix up. I have found, that one obvious E-V13 haplotype was listed as R1b-L23, which probably made the calculation of this haplogroup to be so ancient.

[broder]

My family wasn't in Okshtun at the time of that defter. Struma also means river if im not mistaken. Maybe Easteara can chime in on the words meaning. Doesnt have to be connected to a tribe.

Additionally, that sample you reference, including samples from a Bulgaria study(2013?) and North Croatia study(2017?) and even some of the Albanian samples from the different studies all lack DYS464, which is one of the defining STR markers of L1029. It remains to be seen if they're even in L1029. Though they are definitely R1a by the limited STRs.

Finding other samples in the Balkans who bridge the gap between L1029 and this cluster will be no surprise. Its to be expected. It did arrive between late antiquity and early medieval after all.

All you're doing is guessing. I know exactly who you are. By the way, Stafa is firmly within Y133383, looks like we were both wrong. :-)

How do you know they weren't in Okshtun? Struma literally translates into 'current', so it's wasn't a common name. Most likely people that carried such a family name belonged to the Strumljani tribe that came from the Silesia region of Poland.

It's a good guess nonetheless ☺️

[broder]

Man do you have anything better to do? Hop off already. You're just being petty at this point. Worry about your own family history.

Just accept it and be done with it. You have littered this thread with inconsistent irrelevant walls of text.

If you're not aware, besides the other evidence I brought forth, for example Filipovic in 1940s recorded that Okshtun was Christian just 80 years ago. Meaning orthodox, around 1860s. And says based on the evidence he got, toponomy and family names, they were Slavs that converted and assimilated. He even recorded specific families like Matevci and Smilovci that moved from there to Diber as Christians before the village converted. He lists the patron saint too and the ruins of the church that are just in the outskirts of the village dedicated to Sveti Petka (Shen Premta).

Don't shoot the messenger, I am just interpreting what's in front of me..

[Zanatis]

I aint no historian but I knew Okshtun as a former Slavic settlement that got fully Albanized.

[trdbr1234]

I aint no historian but I knew Okshtun as a former Slavic settlement that got fully Albanized.

How do you figure that?

Okshtun village (Madh and Vogel) is named after the river it sits on, Okshtun river. This is probably where the Strumljani name comes from as well.