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Thread: Albanian DNA Project

  1. #21
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    J-L283>Z1296

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    Again, I don't deny that Albanians probably have some Thracian as I stated earlier (don't want to repeat the facts again). Historians conclude that Albanians are descendants of paleo Balkan populations, such as Illyrians, Thracians (who inhabited the area since the bronze age, and not 400 BC). Out of these two though the Albanian language is much closer to Illyrian based on what is known of Illyrian. And to say that the current main Albanian haplogroups belong to only Thracians is wrong (we don't even have any ancient dna). As I stated earlier, the three main Albanian haplogroups E-V13, R1b-L23, and J2b are mainly concentrated in the Southern Balkans (Greeks have them too) and everything suggests that they have been there since at least the Bronze age.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    Again, I don't deny that Albanians probably have some Thracian as I stated earlier (don't want to repeat the facts again). Historians conclude that Albanians are descendants of paleo Balkan populations, such as Illyrians, Thracians (who inhabited the area since the bronze age, and not 400 BC). Out of these two though the Albanian language is much closer to Illyrian based on what is known of Illyrian. And to say that the current main Albanian haplogroups belong to only Thracians is wrong (we don't even have any ancient dna). As I stated earlier, the three main Albanian haplogroups E-V13, R1b-L23, and J2b are mainly concentrated in the Southern Balkans (Greeks have them too) and everything suggests that they have been there since at least the Bronze age.
    It is probably pretty much a guarantee that the majority of the ancestors of present day Albanian people have been in the Balkans since at least the Bronze Age.

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    Again, I don't deny that Albanians probably have some Thracian as I stated earlier (don't want to repeat the facts again). Historians conclude that Albanians are descendants of paleo Balkan populations, such as Illyrians, Thracians (who inhabited the area since the bronze age, and not 400 BC). Out of these two though the Albanian language is much closer to Illyrian based on what is known of Illyrian. And to say that the current main Albanian haplogroups belong to only Thracians is wrong (we don't even have any ancient dna). As I stated earlier, the three main Albanian haplogroups E-V13, R1b-L23, and J2b are mainly concentrated in the Southern Balkans (Greeks have them too) and everything suggests that they have been there since at least the Bronze age.
    Thanks

    But I follow the bulgarian ,linguist professor ( I cannot remember his name ), who says the albanian non-borrowed words are similar to a group of people residing in the south carpi mountains, north of the ancient dacians. The migration happened when dacians and neighbours where fleeing from gothic invasions from the east and into the Roman empire.

    but its my opinion of which known history by the ancients does not favour an illyrian people.

    European = 99.2%............Central Asian = 0.8% .............Yfull - 1460BC
    Father's Mtdna .........T2b17
    Grandfather's Mtdna .......T1a1e
    Sons Mtdna .......K1a4
    Maternal Grandfather paternal......I1d-P109...CTS6009
    Wife's Ydna .....R1a-Z282

    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS54+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

    The main negatives = ( M193-, P322-, P327-, Pages11- , L25- , CTS1848- )

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     nomad (10-22-2016)

  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    The Thracian 192-1 , from bronze-age was/has H1 ( ydna ) IIRC .........more evidence that the Albanians as per Roman scribes and surveyors where not around modern Albania until probably first mentioned by Romans in 150AD. The huge numbers 68% means a one off migration IMO ( especially since they where never recorded)

    I can only see the indigenous pre- Bosnian populace has the major I2a ( ydna ) marker
    Sorry, but where have you seen that the Thracian 192-1 is H1 Y chr. haplogroup? As far as I know only mtDNA haplogroups are published. Maybe you mixed it up with mtDNA U3, which some people WRONGLY think was initially a Gypsy haplogroup.
    Just check the ancient results, it was found for example in Neolithic bones from Hungary and Ukraine 5000BC.
    http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/eur...ithicdna.shtml
    http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ironagedna.shtml

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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastara View Post
    Sorry, but where have you seen that the Thracian 192-1 is H1 Y chr. haplogroup? As far as I know only mtDNA haplogroups are published. Maybe you mixed it up with mtDNA U3, which some people WRONGLY think was initially a Gypsy haplogroup.
    Just check the ancient results, it was found for example in Neolithic bones from Hungary and Ukraine 5000BC.
    http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/eur...ithicdna.shtml
    http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ironagedna.shtml
    genetiker

    P192-1 ( ydna )
    is

    H1b1-Z14031


    I think H1b ( ydna ) was the old f3 marker

    and genetiker also stated the mtdna is
    The calls confirm the published finding that P192-1 was U3b


    from ncbi
    The four Bulgarian teeth used in this study were obtained from four different excavations.

    Sample P192-1 was found at the site of a pit sanctuary near Svilengrad, Bulgaria, excavated between 2004 and 2006.15 The pits are associated with the Thracian culture and date to the Early Iron Age (800–500 BC) based on pottery found in the pits. A total of 67 ritual pits, including 16 pits containing human skeletons or parts of skeletons, were explored during the excavations. An upper wisdom tooth from an adult male was used for DNA analysis.

    15. Nekhrizov, G., and Tzvetkova, J. (2012). Ritual Pit Complexes in Iron Age Thrace: The Case Study of Svilengrad. In Anatolian Iron Ages 7 The Proceedings of the Seventh Anatolian Iron Ages Colloquium Held at Edirne, 19-24 April 2010. pp. 177–209.

    I do not see what hungary and ukraine have to do with this bulgarian.............I do not know what you are talking about.
    Last edited by vettor; 04-18-2015 at 05:09 AM.

    European = 99.2%............Central Asian = 0.8% .............Yfull - 1460BC
    Father's Mtdna .........T2b17
    Grandfather's Mtdna .......T1a1e
    Sons Mtdna .......K1a4
    Maternal Grandfather paternal......I1d-P109...CTS6009
    Wife's Ydna .....R1a-Z282

    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS54+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

    The main negatives = ( M193-, P322-, P327-, Pages11- , L25- , CTS1848- )

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  11. #26
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    Well, I thought you somehow imply Gypsies are ancient on the Balkan and that's why there are Gypsy haplogroups among Albanians.
    H1b is NOT the Gypsy haplogroup, which is H1a-M82. Anyway, the Thracian samples had very low autosomal coverage, so they probably lack the SNPs which will define the real Y haplogroup.
    Nevertheless, Albanians have more Roma introgression than other Balkan people. Haplogroup H1a is found at 1-2% among Bulgarians, Serbs, and even more among Romanians and Bulgarian Turks.
    Reason is all Roma in the Ottoman Empire were Muslim and probably they mixed along that line with Albanians and Turks. However, Roma in Wallahia were Christians and they were kept as surfs by the Romanian boyars. When the serfdom was abolished those Vlach/Vlax Roma were free to migrate and now they are a big part of the Balkan and even European Roma.
    Regarding I2a-Dinaric, it is not found in a single Arberesh, the Christian Albanians who took refuge from the Turks in Italy. It somehow suggests, if not proves it is not an inherent Albanian haplogroup.

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  13. #27
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    J-L283>Z1296

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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    Thanks

    But I follow the bulgarian ,linguist professor ( I cannot remember his name ), who says the albanian non-borrowed words are similar to a group of people residing in the south carpi mountains, north of the ancient dacians. The migration happened when dacians and neighbours where fleeing from gothic invasions from the east and into the Roman empire.

    but its my opinion of which known history by the ancients does not favour an illyrian people.
    You are thinking of linguist Vladimir Georgiev who thinks Albanians might be Dacians and migrated south from present day Serbia (Again, you have the facts wrong about his theory too). Evidence doesn't support his theory either.
    Last edited by Trojet; 04-18-2015 at 07:00 AM.

  14. #28
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    J-L283>Z1296

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    Quote Originally Posted by eastara View Post
    Well, I thought you somehow imply Gypsies are ancient on the Balkan and that's why there are Gypsy haplogroups among Albanians.
    H1b is NOT the Gypsy haplogroup, which is H1a-M82. Anyway, the Thracian samples had very low autosomal coverage, so they probably lack the SNPs which will define the real Y haplogroup.
    Nevertheless, Albanians have more Roma introgression than other Balkan people. Haplogroup H1a is found at 1-2% among Bulgarians, Serbs, and even more among Romanians and Bulgarian Turks.
    Reason is all Roma in the Ottoman Empire were Muslim and probably they mixed along that line with Albanians and Turks. However, Roma in Wallahia were Christians and they were kept as surfs by the Romanian boyars. When the serfdom was abolished those Vlach/Vlax Roma were free to migrate and now they are a big part of the Balkan and even European Roma.
    Regarding I2a-Dinaric, it is not found in a single Arberesh, the Christian Albanians who took refuge from the Turks in Italy. It somehow suggests, if not proves it is not an inherent Albanian haplogroup.
    The ethnic Albanian population of Ghegs and Tosks, as this study shows, have very minimal 1-2% H1 Roma "Gypsy" haplogroup.

    http://dienekes.blogspot.ca/2010/03/...tions.html?m=1
    Last edited by Trojet; 04-19-2015 at 12:58 AM.

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  16. #29
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    Most of the J2-M172 Albanians are by far J2b but it looks like on the Albanians DNA Project at FTDNA that one sample with origins in Kosovo is actually J2a. More precisely his haplogroup looks like it is most likely J2a1b-M67 based on his haplotype markers when I plug them into Whit Athey's haplogroup predictor. His kit # is 298800 Zerza from Kosovo.

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults

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  18. #30
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    J-L283>Z1296

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    From my connections on 23andme, I see that Albanians score 100% European and at least 90% Balkan, while Tosk Albanians (southern) seem to score somewhat lower on Balkan ~80%.
    Last edited by Trojet; 06-02-2015 at 07:15 PM.

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