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Thread: S21184 has something to tell us

  1. #161
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    Piemonte
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    Atlantic-Iberian-Celtic
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    R1b-DF27>S19290
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    U6

    Italy Piemonte
    Hello, i'm from Piedmont (NW Italy) and i'm DF27>S19290+ tested with Yseq.

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  3. #162
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    Pred.Anglo-Saxon + Briton
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    R1b - Z220 A7066+
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bormanus View Post
    Hello, i'm from Piedmont (NW Italy) and i'm DF27>S19290+ tested with Yseq.
    If you're in a FTDNA project, drop a note with the administrator, you might be able to get moved.
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: ? Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

  4. #163
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    R-DF27>FGC13557
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    H3-T152C!

    Netherlands Netherlands Limburg Germany Belgium Netherlands Noord-Brabant
    kit 231236 Penders had a STR match at Y67 with Dyck, a line with traceable Mennonite ancestry. By manual comparison I could see I also matched him but with slightly more genetic distance (just beyond the FTDNA cutoff). I was pretty convinced he was genetically related to both Penders and Otten lines and he was kind enough to upgrade to Big-Y. His results came in yesterday; he shares all mutations that I share with Penders and actually shares at least one more SNP with Penders, which I don't have: hg38 chrY:21150324. Mine is a "T", theirs is a "G". The split between Otten and Penders is between 180 AD and 1210 AD at 95% confidence according to Ytree.net and between 400 AD and 1450 AD at 95% confidence according to Yfull. The match between Penders and Dyck is likely a few hundred years more recent.
     
    Paternal Y-DNA: R-DF27>Z220>S21184>FGC13557+, DYS487=Null, MDKA: Arnoldus Otten, d. 1721 Schinnen, Netherlands (FTDNA: N126593)
    Paternal mtDNA: U5a2c4, MDKA: Maria de Baur, d 1761, Sittard, Netherlands
    Paternal grandmother Y-DNA: R-U106>Z18>S17721+, MDKA: Adriaan Petri Brouwers, Oosterhout, Netherlands
    Maternal Y-DNA: R-U152>Y22447+, MDKA: Göttgens, confirmed NPE (FGC: X5ZNK)
    Maternal mtDNA: H3-T152C!, MDKA: Helena Cuijpers, d. 1778 Spaubeek, Netherlands

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  6. #164
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    It seems that FTDNA has updated their tree in the vicinity of S21184+. The FTDNA DF27 group admins have already resorted us into new subgroups.

    I now have FGC43319 as SNP (one of many phylogenetically equivalent SNPs). Penders and Dyck share the underlying mutation BY32751 (which I assume is the previously mentioned G at hg38 chrY:21150324).
    MacKinnon has BY32742, so it looks like there is actually another person in his branch now (who is not a member of DF27 group yet). Alex Willamson shows in Big Tree that MacKinnon and the FGC43319 branch share several ambiguous SNPs in regions that are hard to disentangle. I hope that we can someday find a reliable shared SNP between these two branches (personal bias). But that might need Long Read techniques and a lot of luck.
    The branch with the presumably German Lehmann and French Gibault now has a match with the Italian Smargiassi, which breaks their long block of equivalent SNPs (FGC13563 seems to be the earliest shared SNP).
    Below A7066 a whole mini-tree has formed with shared SNP BY32732.

    Pretty exciting to see all these changes, hope that FTDNA continues this so we can have a proper tree using their full database. Hope that the BY's will end up on Ybrowse so others can make use of them.
     
    Paternal Y-DNA: R-DF27>Z220>S21184>FGC13557+, DYS487=Null, MDKA: Arnoldus Otten, d. 1721 Schinnen, Netherlands (FTDNA: N126593)
    Paternal mtDNA: U5a2c4, MDKA: Maria de Baur, d 1761, Sittard, Netherlands
    Paternal grandmother Y-DNA: R-U106>Z18>S17721+, MDKA: Adriaan Petri Brouwers, Oosterhout, Netherlands
    Maternal Y-DNA: R-U152>Y22447+, MDKA: Göttgens, confirmed NPE (FGC: X5ZNK)
    Maternal mtDNA: H3-T152C!, MDKA: Helena Cuijpers, d. 1778 Spaubeek, Netherlands

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  8. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotten View Post

    Pretty exciting to see all these changes, hope that FTDNA continues this so we can have a proper tree using their full database. Hope that the BY's will end up on Ybrowse so others can make use of them.
    Good to hear. Now hopefully they will soon reorganise the Z209 group, which is sorely out of sync with Ytree.net.

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  10. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotten View Post
    It seems that FTDNA has updated their tree in the vicinity of S21184+. The FTDNA DF27 group admins have already re-sorted us into new subgroups.
    Lucas has re-sorted us (the other admins are not helping or hindering that, since late July); and he works directly with Michael Sager, who has some tools not available to admins for checking .bed files, etc. to confirm the new branches. The process began with the ZZ12 side, so some parts of it have been worked over more diligently than others. (That has some effect on what miremont wishes for in the next post, about Z209.)

    Michael can also see BigY results of people who have taken the test but haven't joined a haplogroup project. We admins can't; and usually Alex (YTree) can't, either -- because FTDNA customers who aren't in (R1b) haplogroup projects tend also not to know that there is a Big Tree, and haven't made their .vcf or BAM files available to Alex (or anybody else) for analysis. However, Alex does look at FGC tests (as supplied to him), the 1000 Genomes project data, and some other sources about which FTDNA tends to be uninformed. At least Alex, Michael and Lucas play nicely together, at present.

    Hope that the BY's will end up on Ybrowse so others can make use of them.
    The most diligent submitter of new SNP data to YBrowse is Thomas Krahn, and I don't believe BY SNPs are either submitted to him, or by him to YBrowse, as anybody's high priority. The same new SNP may be known to YSEQ; and if they named it, it begins with an A (in a numerical sequence independent of the BY number). YFull, CTS, PH and others may also have named the same SNP independently. Usually it takes a while to discover and coordinate everybody's version, and none of them must follow the same criteria for naming SNPs (such as requiring a match between two sequenced samples, maybe even from different surnames; omitting indels; requiring that they be in specific unambiguous regions, especially those not mirrored on the X chromosome; excluding SNPs on the Y chromosome's palindromes, etc.). These varying levels of restriction are one of the main drivers of the wildly varying trees we see, depending on where we look. The other main driver is that the preparers of the trees don't all have access to the same data.

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  12. #167
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    There seems to be further resolution with the Big Ys of a few more kits that have come in. Not sure where the positions fall exactly, but looks to be under S19290+ related branches, more Germanic surnames. Iberian origin seems next to impossible, or a real stretch at this point.
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: ? Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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  1. S21184 has something to tell us
    By razyn in forum R1b-DF27
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    Last Post: 02-14-2015, 07:16 PM

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