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Thread: S21184 has something to tell us

  1. #161
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    Piedmontese
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    R1b-DF27>S19290
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    U6

    Italy Piemonte
    Hello, i'm from Piedmont (NW Italy) and i'm DF27>S19290+ tested with Yseq.

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  3. #162
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    Pred.Anglo-Saxon + Briton
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    R1b S21184, BY50830+
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bormanus View Post
    Hello, i'm from Piedmont (NW Italy) and i'm DF27>S19290+ tested with Yseq.
    If you're in a FTDNA project, drop a note with the administrator, you might be able to get moved.
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: ? Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

  4. #163
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    R-DF27>FGC13557
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    H3-T152C!

    Netherlands Netherlands Limburg Germany Belgium Netherlands Noord-Brabant
    kit 231236 Penders had a STR match at Y67 with Dyck, a line with traceable Mennonite ancestry. By manual comparison I could see I also matched him but with slightly more genetic distance (just beyond the FTDNA cutoff). I was pretty convinced he was genetically related to both Penders and Otten lines and he was kind enough to upgrade to Big-Y. His results came in yesterday; he shares all mutations that I share with Penders and actually shares at least one more SNP with Penders, which I don't have: hg38 chrY:21150324. Mine is a "T", theirs is a "G". The split between Otten and Penders is between 180 AD and 1210 AD at 95% confidence according to Ytree.net and between 400 AD and 1450 AD at 95% confidence according to Yfull. The match between Penders and Dyck is likely a few hundred years more recent.
     
    Paternal Y-DNA: R-DF27>Z220>S21184>FGC13557+, DYS487=Null, MDKA: Arnoldus Otten, d. 1721 Schinnen, Netherlands (FTDNA: N126593)
    Paternal mtDNA: U5a2c4, MDKA: Maria de Baur, d 1761, Sittard, Netherlands
    Paternal grandmother Y-DNA: R-U106>Z18>S17721+, MDKA: Adriaan Petri Brouwers, Oosterhout, Netherlands
    Maternal Y-DNA: R-U152>Y22447+, MDKA: Göttgens, confirmed NPE (FGC: X5ZNK)
    Maternal mtDNA: H3-T152C!, MDKA: Helena Cuijpers, d. 1778 Spaubeek, Netherlands

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  6. #164
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    It seems that FTDNA has updated their tree in the vicinity of S21184+. The FTDNA DF27 group admins have already resorted us into new subgroups.

    I now have FGC43319 as SNP (one of many phylogenetically equivalent SNPs). Penders and Dyck share the underlying mutation BY32751 (which I assume is the previously mentioned G at hg38 chrY:21150324).
    MacKinnon has BY32742, so it looks like there is actually another person in his branch now (who is not a member of DF27 group yet). Alex Willamson shows in Big Tree that MacKinnon and the FGC43319 branch share several ambiguous SNPs in regions that are hard to disentangle. I hope that we can someday find a reliable shared SNP between these two branches (personal bias). But that might need Long Read techniques and a lot of luck.
    The branch with the presumably German Lehmann and French Gibault now has a match with the Italian Smargiassi, which breaks their long block of equivalent SNPs (FGC13563 seems to be the earliest shared SNP).
    Below A7066 a whole mini-tree has formed with shared SNP BY32732.

    Pretty exciting to see all these changes, hope that FTDNA continues this so we can have a proper tree using their full database. Hope that the BY's will end up on Ybrowse so others can make use of them.
     
    Paternal Y-DNA: R-DF27>Z220>S21184>FGC13557+, DYS487=Null, MDKA: Arnoldus Otten, d. 1721 Schinnen, Netherlands (FTDNA: N126593)
    Paternal mtDNA: U5a2c4, MDKA: Maria de Baur, d 1761, Sittard, Netherlands
    Paternal grandmother Y-DNA: R-U106>Z18>S17721+, MDKA: Adriaan Petri Brouwers, Oosterhout, Netherlands
    Maternal Y-DNA: R-U152>Y22447+, MDKA: Göttgens, confirmed NPE (FGC: X5ZNK)
    Maternal mtDNA: H3-T152C!, MDKA: Helena Cuijpers, d. 1778 Spaubeek, Netherlands

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  8. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotten View Post

    Pretty exciting to see all these changes, hope that FTDNA continues this so we can have a proper tree using their full database. Hope that the BY's will end up on Ybrowse so others can make use of them.
    Good to hear. Now hopefully they will soon reorganise the Z209 group, which is sorely out of sync with Ytree.net.

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  10. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotten View Post
    It seems that FTDNA has updated their tree in the vicinity of S21184+. The FTDNA DF27 group admins have already re-sorted us into new subgroups.
    Lucas has re-sorted us (the other admins are not helping or hindering that, since late July); and he works directly with Michael Sager, who has some tools not available to admins for checking .bed files, etc. to confirm the new branches. The process began with the ZZ12 side, so some parts of it have been worked over more diligently than others. (That has some effect on what miremont wishes for in the next post, about Z209.)

    Michael can also see BigY results of people who have taken the test but haven't joined a haplogroup project. We admins can't; and usually Alex (YTree) can't, either -- because FTDNA customers who aren't in (R1b) haplogroup projects tend also not to know that there is a Big Tree, and haven't made their .vcf or BAM files available to Alex (or anybody else) for analysis. However, Alex does look at FGC tests (as supplied to him), the 1000 Genomes project data, and some other sources about which FTDNA tends to be uninformed. At least Alex, Michael and Lucas play nicely together, at present.

    Hope that the BY's will end up on Ybrowse so others can make use of them.
    The most diligent submitter of new SNP data to YBrowse is Thomas Krahn, and I don't believe BY SNPs are either submitted to him, or by him to YBrowse, as anybody's high priority. The same new SNP may be known to YSEQ; and if they named it, it begins with an A (in a numerical sequence independent of the BY number). YFull, CTS, PH and others may also have named the same SNP independently. Usually it takes a while to discover and coordinate everybody's version, and none of them must follow the same criteria for naming SNPs (such as requiring a match between two sequenced samples, maybe even from different surnames; omitting indels; requiring that they be in specific unambiguous regions, especially those not mirrored on the X chromosome; excluding SNPs on the Y chromosome's palindromes, etc.). These varying levels of restriction are one of the main drivers of the wildly varying trees we see, depending on where we look. The other main driver is that the preparers of the trees don't all have access to the same data.

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  12. #167
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    There seems to be further resolution with the Big Ys of a few more kits that have come in. Not sure where the positions fall exactly, but looks to be under S19290+ related branches, more Germanic surnames. Iberian origin seems next to impossible, or a real stretch at this point.
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: ? Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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  14. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotten View Post
    The split between Otten and Penders is between 180 AD and 1210 AD at 95% confidence according to Ytree.net and between 400 AD and 1450 AD at 95% confidence according to Yfull. The match between Penders and Dyck is likely a few hundred years more recent.
    Considering the Penders and Otten families are from a very specific region of the Netherlands (MDKAs 10 to 20 km away from each other), and Penders and Dyck are slightly closer related than Otten and Penders-Dyck (based on SNPs), it would appear that the Dyck family has an origin in the same geographical region. If true, this is a very big discovery for the Dyck family. I discussed this with Tim Janzen and the Big-Y tester from the Dyck family and they seemed to be as intrigued as I am.

    The Dyck member is now also on Alex Williamson's Big Tree. Apart from the one high quality testable SNP, there are also a 2-3 others shared between Penders and Dyck in ambiguous regions.
     
    Paternal Y-DNA: R-DF27>Z220>S21184>FGC13557+, DYS487=Null, MDKA: Arnoldus Otten, d. 1721 Schinnen, Netherlands (FTDNA: N126593)
    Paternal mtDNA: U5a2c4, MDKA: Maria de Baur, d 1761, Sittard, Netherlands
    Paternal grandmother Y-DNA: R-U106>Z18>S17721+, MDKA: Adriaan Petri Brouwers, Oosterhout, Netherlands
    Maternal Y-DNA: R-U152>Y22447+, MDKA: Göttgens, confirmed NPE (FGC: X5ZNK)
    Maternal mtDNA: H3-T152C!, MDKA: Helena Cuijpers, d. 1778 Spaubeek, Netherlands

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  16. #169
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    R-P311>DF27>M167
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    J1c1

    United States of America Ireland Ireland Munster Denmark Czech Republic Nigeria
    Hi all, I didn't know exactly where to post this but I'm hoping someone can help me. I uploaded both my Ancestry and 23andMe data to wegenes and both uploads gave me the Iberian Y haplogroup, R1b M167. 23andMe says I'm P311 which is very general, so I decided to look through the raw data to find a subclade. I figured out how to read my raw data and looked for the M167 mutation at rs1800865 position 2658271 G Alt. A, but neither of my raw data files has it. I looked for other subclades and could only find Celtic R1b L21 at rs11799226 position 15654428 C C and Germanic R1b U106 at rs16981293 position 8796078 C C. Should I trust the raw data or wegenes?
    Last edited by IAmMe; 05-06-2018 at 03:38 AM.
    I don't really know much about my ancestors except that on my dad's side I've got one that came to America from Cork, Ireland during the potato famine, one Mayflower passenger who came from Southampton, England, and one who came from somewhere in Czechoslovakia during the Czech diaspora. On my mom's side, most of her relatives are African American with the exception of my mom and her mom. I don't know what kind of European my mom is.

  17. #170
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    U4b1a2 - FGS

    Canada England Wales Netherlands France Cornwall
    Alex Williamson's tree is becoming quite robust. Hopefully some more BigYs will be on order with the Father's Day sale.

    http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php...766&star=false
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: ? Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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