Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 50

Thread: New developments in L448>YP355

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    24
    Sex
    Location
    UK
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-FGC5494-Y9089
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a4a1

    New developments in L448>YP355

    Thanks to a lot of Big Y tests in the last few months there is now much more definition in the structure of the YP355 subclade. A lot of new SNPs have been discovered and some of the lines have SNPs taking them right into the historical era. Here is a tree diagram that shows the new SNPs and subclades (and please note the date estimates shown are very approximate). We hope to keep updating this as new information comes through, and would welcome any comments or thoughts.
    The surnames shown relate to the R1a project where more details can be seen (go to p.5 of the results pages).
    YP355Tree_150228.png

  2. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to ocleirigh For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (03-29-2015),  ÁNLEIFR (03-23-2015),  baekkev (03-02-2015),  kaiono (03-29-2015),  Michał (03-24-2015),  OPrytz (03-01-2015)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    59
    Sex
    Location
    Texas
    Ethnicity
    Norse Gael
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a YP1426
    mtDNA (M)
    H1

    United States Gadsden Ireland Norway
    Thanks Ocleirigh,

    I am on the YP355 line and the project assumes me to be on the YP1120 line, I intend to take the Y-prime elite test at some point down the road in hopes it will bring about a matching result in the historical record. There are about 20 individuals that I've had contact with over the past three years that don't belong to the R1a project who would likely be on the YP1120 line as well, but who simply don't understand the potential of getting a Big Y or Y-prime test. I'm hoping that I can encourage some folks to join the group, especially since many of them are in the 70+ age group. I like the diagram alot.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to IrishNorse For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (03-29-2015),  ocleirigh (03-15-2015)

  5. #3
    Junior Member
    Posts
    1
    Sex
    Location
    New Mexico
    Ethnicity
    Irish
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-L448-YP355>YP992
    mtDNA (M)
    I1a1b

    United States of America
    IrishNorse - You are certainly encouraged to have your group members join the R1a Project. We started this YP355 research initially based on the STR results and have expanded greatly with the Big Y results. Your group may help fill in some gaps as we have just recently noted more detail in the YP1120 line.

  6. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    28
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    L448-YP355-YP5598

    United States of America England Scotland Germany Ireland Norway
    Thank you very much for this chart!!!

  7. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    24
    Sex
    Location
    UK
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-FGC5494-Y9089
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a4a1

    Thanks all for the interest in this. Here is an updated version of the YP355 tree with additional information learned in the last month. The tree shows the main blocks of newly discovered and named SNPs, but a lot has been discovered too about private SNPs in the YP355 testers. The second image posted here is a SNP discovery tree for YP355 - with thanks to all the YP355 NGS test takers who have shared their results to help build this.

    Several private SNPs have already been found to be shared through NGS tests like Big Y, and then named and transferred to the main tree. Most of the discovery so far has been in the YP984 and YP1120 branches, so this discovery tree is offered as a resource to everyone in the YP355*, YP609*, YP1100 and other branches of the big YP618 subclade. New NGS tests are likely to identify some of these private variants as new SNPs for these branches, and this will help us to spot them as they are found, and then add the new branches to the main tree. The variants marked in red are less certain or reliable than the others (due to low number of reads or being in a position on the Y chromosome that is difficult to test).

    YP355 tree - YP355 Tree.png

    YP355 SNP discovery tree - YP355_SNPtree_150325.pdf

    YP355 named SNP index - YP355_SNPindex_150325.pdf
    Last edited by ocleirigh; 03-28-2015 at 01:20 PM.

  8. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to ocleirigh For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (03-29-2015),  ÁNLEIFR (09-10-2015),  Hendoz (03-28-2015),  kaiono (03-29-2015),  Michał (03-28-2015)

  9. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    59
    Sex
    Location
    Texas
    Ethnicity
    Norse Gael
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a YP1426
    mtDNA (M)
    H1

    United States Gadsden Ireland Norway
    Ocleirigh,

    I am kit # 309012 under YP355 and assumed under YP1120. I have requested a test thru Yseq for YP1120 & YP1426 since I think I'm closer to Boulton then Henderson.

    I have been trying to determine a location for this subclade. Based on other kits that I share on STRs it seems to be NW England or Wales or Devon areas. I suspect that these could be norsegaels since all the kits border the Irish Sea(none are from the west coast of Ireland nor the east coast of England or Scotland.

    Do you know if we had a few matches on the YP1426 would that place the time frame in the Viking era 900 to 1000AD?

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to IrishNorse For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (03-29-2015),  ÁNLEIFR (09-10-2015)

  11. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    24
    Sex
    Location
    UK
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-FGC5494-Y9089
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a4a1

    Hello IrishNorse
    I tried to message you earlier, but seems I have not posted enough times yet ... so thanks for your question. Your tests at YSEQ will be very useful, and if they split the YP1426 etc. block that will be an interesting result. I agree you look near to Boulton and McPherson in our tree so you should share some of their snps. We also are not sure of which level to put YP1427 (YFull think it may belong one level higher with YP1120).

    I think you are right about an Irish Sea association with YP355 in the Isles. Many of the Irish YP984 look as if they are also connected with the area from the river Foyle down to Tyrone and Cavan. I would suspect that even YP1426 is older than the Viking raids period, maybe 1500 years as a ballpark guess. YFull are estimating ages of new snps on their tree, but they don't have enough results for this one yet, but I notice they estimate the age of the YP1120 block at at least 1,950 years. It could be that you might share even more of either Boulton or McPherson snps, if your line split from them later.

  12. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    59
    Sex
    Location
    Texas
    Ethnicity
    Norse Gael
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a YP1426
    mtDNA (M)
    H1

    United States Gadsden Ireland Norway
    OK thanks.

    Boulton doesn't see to have very many SNP below YP1426. I am assuming as a general rule of thumb of 150 years/mutation for the SNP. That would only take him up to 1200AD give or take. Are the rest of his results just suspected to be private SNPs or is it just a case of not enough test results to determine that?


    Is Boulton suspected to be 15-17 on the STR - DYF395S1?

    I don't know if the Big Y tested for this but I'm the only one so far that I know of that tested positive for the SNP -F1529 in the R1a group (test was via NAT. Geo 2.0). I assume that would be further up the tree than L448, but if that is the case then I would think that Boulton or Henderson would test positive for that as well.

  13. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    24
    Sex
    Location
    UK
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-FGC5494-Y9089
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a4a1

    There is a third YP1426 we know of who has not joined our group, at least yet, also with 12 snps downstream of YP1426. So average across the three, 12/12/6 = av. 10 good quality variants downstream from YP1426, and say allow 140 years per snp on the Big Y stretch of the Y chr > 1400 years (or between 1300-1550 years bp). It might be interesting to hear from the R1a project team on their latest thinking about snp mutation rates, since YFull published their paper on it, and whether this is still a fair assumption.

    F1529 (9383960 T>C) is tested in Big Y, and none of the R1a testers who have joined the group at YFull is positive for this. It is likely to be a private call for yourself, assuming it was a good call on Geno 2.0. It appears in haplogroup N - see http://tinyurl.com/qdeolh3 - but that doesn't mean it is not a good call for you. I don't know whether Boulton has the 15-17 value, but if he will analyse his BAM file at YFull this will show in the STR analysis (and might also discover some more private SNPs, since 6 is lower than the others in that subclade).

  14. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,813
    Sex
    Location
    Warsaw, Poland
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-L1280>FGC41205
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a2(b)
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1a-L1029>YP517
    mtDNA (P)
    H5a2

    Poland European Union
    Quote Originally Posted by ocleirigh View Post
    It might be interesting to hear from the R1a project team on their latest thinking about snp mutation rates, since YFull published their paper on it, and whether this is still a fair assumption.
    If using the YFull mutation rate, we would need to assume that the ages of all subclades in question are a bit younger than previously calculated (by about 15%), though I am not fully convinced that the mutation rate is indeed about 0.82 x 10^-9, and not slightly lower, for example within the 0.8-0.7 range, which is still within their margin of error. The huge advantage of the estimates provided by the YFull team is that they know the exact regions covered by the test, and thus their calculations should be very precise in this respect.
    Last edited by Michał; 03-28-2015 at 08:00 PM.

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Michał For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (03-29-2015),  ocleirigh (04-06-2015)

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. L448>YP355>YP1120
    By IrishNorse in forum R1a-Z283
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-17-2020, 07:45 PM
  2. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-06-2019, 12:11 AM
  3. Any information on YP355>YP618(YP609)
    By IrishNorse in forum R1a-Z283
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 10-23-2017, 09:06 AM
  4. Has there been any recent developments in SNP age Calculations?
    By Peter MacDonald in forum R1b General
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-03-2015, 10:09 PM
  5. Danish L448
    By ÁNLEIFR in forum R1a-Z283
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-25-2015, 09:23 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •