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Thread: New developments in L448>YP355

  1. #11
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    According to YFull, L448's TMRCA is around 3200 yBP... Any thoughts about this? Is it even accurate? As far as I can tell, YFull's calculations seem to be reliable, at least judging from other haplogroups (such as E-M34 and J1).
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    According to YFull, L448's TMRCA is around 3200 yBP... Any thoughts about this? Is it even accurate? As far as I can tell, YFull's calculations seem to be reliable, at least judging from other haplogroups (such as E-M34 and J1).
    All STR-based estimates for L448 I've seen so far suggested that clade L448 expanded about 2500-3000 years ago (or more specifically about 2600-2800 years ago), and my preliminary BigY-based calculations were rather consistent with those earlier estimates, so it seems that this new TMRCA for L448 (as calculated by YFull) is an overestimate, although it should be noted that their margin of error is very large in this particular case (2300-4300 years). Let's wait and check whether this will change after they refine their estimates (as they have already done for some other subclades).

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  4. #13
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    Well I received my results today from Y SEQ and I am positive for YP1120 & YPp1426. I've advised the R1a team thru Michal.

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  6. #14
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    Good to hear this. So it clearly places you with the two other YP1426 guys. Did you test any other markers and get negatives, or just those two?

  7. #15
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    Well it places me with kit 249077 but it may not with 338188, I'll have to wait for the admins to lot at it.

  8. #16
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    They're both YP1426, and there is at least one more not in the R1a project.

  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    According to YFull, L448's TMRCA is around 3200 yBP... Any thoughts about this? Is it even accurate? As far as I can tell, YFull's calculations seem to be reliable, at least judging from other haplogroups (such as E-M34 and J1).
    I suspect L448 is the surviving derivative of R1a Corded Ware in Scandinavia. Where as a group like L664 could be from Anglo Saxons or even Celtic people.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    maternal-gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    maternal-gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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  11. #18
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    Sorry what I meant was that there may be 3 subclades under YP1426 - McPherson, Boulton, & henderson; rather then lumped into one.

  12. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishNorse View Post
    Sorry what I meant was that there may be 3 subclades under YP1426 - McPherson, Boulton, & henderson; rather then lumped into one.
    Henderson seems to be negative for YP1426, so he rather represents another (yet unknown) subclade under YP1120.

    As for the potential phylogenetic structure under YP1426, it seems that there are at least two separate sublineages within this subclade, with the major one likely including the BigY-tested Boulton and the entire STR-defined cluster that is currently named YP1120-A1 (or even a significant portion of its slightly broader "parental" cluster YP1120-A) that will probably be soon renamed to YP1426-A. The other "known" sublineage of YP1426 (let's call it, provisionally, YP1426-B ) includes at least the BigY-tested McPherson, and maybe those members of YP1120-A* who show DYS391=10 and DYS576>17 (as opposed to DYS391=11 and DYS576<17, a combination that is characteristic for the above-mentioned hypothetical sublineage YP1426-A).

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  14. #20
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    Michal thank you for the update. I take it these are STR-based subclades, which looks very reasonable - though I notice all the YP1426 Big Y results have independent SNP chains coming off from YP1426. The known [11, <17] kits don't seem to share any SNPs below YP1426 - unless the new Tolchard Big Y shares any SNPs with the Boulton one, which looks possible as their 37-STRs are fairly close.

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