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Thread: L1b (L-M317)

  1. #1
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    L1b (L-M317)

    L1b is found at low frequencies in the Middle East, Caucasus and rarely South Central Asia. It's subclade L-M349 is found at low frequencies in Levant region and Southern/Central Europe.

    I found a map about subclades of L. You can see geographic distribution of L1b and other subclades.
     


    Also, I've just studied on a phylogenetic tree about L1b. I've used 37 markers y-str results of L1b* (L-M317) and L1b1 (L-M349) samples from FTDNA database, and I've used McDonald's individual mutation rates for each str markers on Murka phylogeny software working with the parsimony methods. You can get more information about Murka in this topic. http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...imony-methods)

    I've used those McDonald's mutation rates one by one for each str markers.
     



    All of L1b clusters have a common ancestor who lived 10200 +- 900 years ago.
    L-M349 samples have a common ancestor who lived 6000 +- 800 years ago.

    That is the result of my study, phylogenetic tree of L1b.


    As a result, L1b-M317 (xM349) probably originated between Levant and Iranian plateau, and L1b1-M349 probably originated in the Levant according to phylogenetic tree.

    What do you think about that western branch of haplogroup L?
    Last edited by Caspian; 03-05-2015 at 08:53 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Also, I belong to M317+ L656+ and I've clustered with three Chechen and a Bulgarian samples under the 3500 years old Pontic/Caucasian Cluster, and we have a common ancestor who lived circa 1600 years ago. I have got three Iraqi exact matches but they haven't got 37 markers. Therefore, I couldn't add them to the tree.
    Last edited by Caspian; 03-05-2015 at 09:05 PM.

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  5. #3
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    L1b1* seem to correlate with the Kurdish, Lur/Bakhtiari and Qashqai Areas. It also a strong presence along the Anti-Lebanon mountains, the Caspian coast and the Volga region.






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  7. #4
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    Here is a Dendogram for L1b people in West Asia and Europe. A bottleneck is argued for West Asian L1b as far as ~6200 (8700-2500) year is lost to be linked to European and Levant L1b.

    Its also discovered that 42% of Lazs, 40+ % of Hamshins and 30-40 % of Eastern Trabzon are L1b. L1b is also frequently found in Migrelians too.

    http://s020.radikal.ru/i710/1503/90/4bf83d6c070e.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caspian View Post
    L1b is found at low frequencies in the Middle East, Caucasus and rarely South Central Asia. It's subclade L-M349 is found at low frequencies in Levant region and Southern/Central Europe.

    I found a map about subclades of L. You can see geographic distribution of L1b and other subclades.
     


    Also, I've just studied on a phylogenetic tree about L1b. I've used 37 markers y-str results of L1b* (L-M317) and L1b1 (L-M349) samples from FTDNA database, and I've used McDonald's individual mutation rates for each str markers on Murka phylogeny software working with the parsimony methods. You can get more information about Murka in this topic. http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...imony-methods)

    I've used those McDonald's mutation rates one by one for each str markers.
     



    All of L1b clusters have a common ancestor who lived 10200 +- 900 years ago.
    L-M349 samples have a common ancestor who lived 6000 +- 800 years ago.

    That is the result of my study, phylogenetic tree of L1b.


    As a result, L1b-M317 (xM349) probably originated between Levant and Iranian plateau, and L1b1-M349 probably originated in the Levant according to phylogenetic tree.

    What do you think about that western branch of haplogroup L?
    All the L2-L595 matches the areas of Ydna T1a , except the Greek part

    Any other information on this?

    L-L595

    L-L595 is found only in Europe from Ireland to Eastern Europe and their highest frequency is found in Estonia,[Footnote 5] Scozzari 2001, Lappalainen 2008.

    footnote 5 - found by Ftdna labs in May 2011

    European = 99.2%......Central Asian = 0.8% ....Yfull - 1460BC, Jura caves
    Father's Mtdna .........T2b17
    Grandfather's Mtdna .......T1a1e
    Sons Mtdna .......K1a4o
    Maternal Grandfather paternal......I1d-P109...CTS6009
    Maternal side Grandfather .......R-S8172
    Wife's Ydna .....R1a-Z282

    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS54+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

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  11. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anabasis View Post
    Here is a Dendogram for L1b people in West Asia and Europe. A bottleneck is argued for West Asian L1b as far as ~6200 (8700-2500) year is lost to be linked to European and Levant L1b.

    Its also discovered that 42% of Lazs, 40+ % of Hamshins and 30-40 % of Eastern Trabzon are L1b. L1b is also frequently found in Migrelians too.

    http://s020.radikal.ru/i710/1503/90/4bf83d6c070e.png
    You're right, L1b found at high frequencies in the Pontic region and Southwest Caucasus. It also found at high frequencies in Mountain Jews and Avars from Dagestan. We need more Caucasian samples from FTDNA.

    There aren't some L1b samples on the Rozhansky's L1b tree. There are 142 samples on my tree, but his tree includes 130 samples. I think, also he used an average mutation rate for every str markers, but I've used variable mutation rates to slow and fast each str markers.
    Last edited by Caspian; 03-07-2015 at 09:42 AM.

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  13. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    All the L2-L595 matches the areas of Ydna T1a , except the Greek part

    Any other information on this?

    L-L595

    L-L595 is found only in Europe from Ireland to Eastern Europe and their highest frequency is found in Estonia,[Footnote 5] Scozzari 2001, Lappalainen 2008.

    footnote 5 - found by Ftdna labs in May 2011
    I haven't got an idea about it. It is a different branch of L.

  14. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caspian View Post
    You're right, L1b found at high frequencies in the Pontic region and Southwest Caucasus. It also found at high frequencies in Mountain Jews and Avars from Dagestan. We need more Caucasian samples from FTDNA.

    There aren't some L1b samples on the Rozhansky's L1b tree. There are 142 samples on my tree, but his tree includes 130 samples. I think, also he used an average mutation rate for every str markers, but I've used variable mutation rates to slow and fast each str markers.
    Caspian sorry i couldnt understand the age of the Pontic cluster. Whats the age of it? And which one is the oldest? Your tree is a bit confusing

  15. #9
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    Oke I got the tree. Probaby i will be clustered at upper side of 3 Greko Armenian and cousin with kit nos :N94640 and 292179. Thanks for your great job.

  16. #10
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    Interesting that L1b found at significant frequencies in peoples who speak a different language from their religion.

    For example, Hayroums a.k.a Hayhurums are Armenian speaking people who believe in Greek Orthodox church from Kars and Ardahan have L1b at significant frequencies.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayhurum
    That map is about Hayroum villages in Eastern Anatolia.


    Hemshins are Armenian speaking people who believe in Islam from Black-Sea region also have L1b at significant frequencies.

    Also, Greeks from Tsalka (Azeri speaking people who believe in Greek Orthodox church) from Georgia and Greeks from Crimea (Greco-Tatars) have it.

    That is y-dna results of Greeks from Tsalka, Georgia.


    And Greeks from Crimea.


    I'm sure that, some L1b samples from Black Sea were related Greek colonization and/or Kingdom of Pontus.
    Look at the map about Greek colonies of the Northern Black Sea in 450 BCE.


    And some L1b samples was influenced by the struggle between Armenian Apostolic, Georgian Orthodox and Greek Orthodox Church in Eastern Anatolia and Southern Caucasus.
    Last edited by Caspian; 03-31-2015 at 08:40 PM.

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