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Thread: R1a in Italy

  1. #1
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    R1a in Italy

    Which subclades of R1a are present in Italy?It's an ancient connection the diffusion in Italy or for some historical migrations?

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    Mostly R1a-Z280 and Z93 with minority of "Old European" M417- clades and M458 popping up sometimes in the North.

    In Italian context, I think that R1a-Z93 is associated with various movements during antiquity (I would rather exclude frequently brought up "Jews" and "Arabs" in most cases, since their R1a subbranches are different).
    Z280 is, IMHO, both (Balkan)Slavic and Gothic, Vandallic(?). M417- clades were brought by various people in uncertain period of time.

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    Thanks i also founded some historical documents where talk about some Slavs in Italy during the Middle Ages.

    Molise
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molise_Croats

    Friuli
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavia_Friulana

    Calabria
    http://www.academia.edu/6488810/Gli_...bria_bizantina

    Sicily
    http://www.europaorientalis.it/uploa...983/1983.1.pdf

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    Interesting materials.

    By the way, thanks to the courtesy of Richard Rocca and administry of Sicily Project, several Italian R1a haplotypes have joined R1a Project.

    I has helped a bit with understanding a structure of Italian R1a, at least this commercially tested by FTDNA and having at least 37 markers.

    New samples:
    1x R1a* (M420!), don't know from where
    2x Z282>PF6155>M458>PF7521>CTS11962>L1029, one with Germanic surname
    1x Z282>Z280>Z92>Z685>YP270>CTS4648 from Ischia
    1x Z282>Z280>Z92-y Probably clade Z92 from Calabria
    1x Z282>Z280>CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>YP237>YP234>YP295>L3 66 from Rovigno
    Unknown M417+ [L664- M458-, Z284- predicted] from Trapani, Sicily
    Unknown M417+ [L664- Z284- predicted] from Cervicati, Calabria
    Unknown R1a from Monterodurni, Molise
    2 related unknown R1a from Sicily
    Unknown R1a from Palermo

    Unknown haplotypes can belong to the several subclades, consisting various Z280, Z282, Z93 subclades, probably not discovered so far or a rare subset of those existing.

    Also invited Tuscan from Marciano della Chiana has joined a project and he has quickly ordered a Big Y, he currently belongs to an unknown M417+ line.
    Last edited by Artmar; 04-05-2015 at 02:46 PM.

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    Several potential sources have been mentioned. Should probably consider Greek colonists, too. Greece is above 10% if memory serves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Several potential sources have been mentioned. Should probably consider Greek colonists, too. Greece is above 10% if memory serves.
    But isn't that mainly Slavic? If so it won't have been in Greece at the time of the colonisation of southern Italy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    But isn't that mainly Slavic? If so it won't have been in Greece at the time of the colonisation of southern Italy.
    I think that some Z93 haplotypes may be Greek-introduced but rest (Z280, M458) is mostly Slavic, Arboreshe or Germanic.

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  13. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Artmar View Post
    I think that some Z93 haplotypes may be Greek-introduced but rest (Z280, M458) is mostly Slavic, Arboreshe or Germanic.
    But how did Z93 get to Greece? It is absent in most of the Balkans and then has a local peak in Greece?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    But isn't that mainly Slavic? If so it won't have been in Greece at the time of the colonisation of southern Italy.
    whether large or small there certainly was a Slavic contribution in Greece. I think much of the Greek R1a predates Slavic incursions, but this I've only surmised.

  16. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    whether large or small there certainly was a Slavic contribution in Greece. I think much of the Greek R1a predates Slavic incursions, but this I've only surmised.
    Well we can rule out anything downstream of Z283 being there prior to Slavic incursions (or less likely Germanic). So that leaves Z93. Which could have come to Greece even after Slavs imo.

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