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Thread: R1b-V88/V35 in 400 year old Afro-Carribean slave STM1

  1. #1
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    R1b-V88/V35 in 400 year old Afro-Carribean slave STM1

    A great find I noticed from the R1b in Spain thread first mentioned by poster Parasar.

    One of the key things he highlighted was based on the Francalacci Sardinian data a divergence around 6500 BC from those Sardinian lineages to the African V35 male. So I'm curious on how to connect these dots. A north to south scenario by early Iberian(?) pioneers who may have followed the coasts of western Africa early on seems unlikely, but I suppose cannot be ruled out. I noticed the sample Nigerian at 23andMe has a Ancestry Composition of 0.1 Non-Specific South European.

    Curious on other thoughts here. Perhaps there is some middle ground, likely the Levant which spread south to Egypt and south of the Sahara, but also to mediterranean Europe around 6-7000 BC

    I was not able to find reference on STM2 Y-chromsome. It would be interested if we had a Y result for this one too.

    EDIT: paper here: http://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/20...84112.sapp.pdf
    Last edited by ADW_1981; 03-11-2015 at 05:26 PM.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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  3. #2
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    This is from the Eurogenes thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy King
    The new study by the Bustamente lab and the Copenhagen ancient DNA group (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/20...84112.abstract) found a R1b-V88 among slaves in the Caribbean. They were able to deduce a 8500 ybp separation between the African V88 and the Sardinian V88/V35. 8500 bp fits perfectly in the time framework of the Late Mesolithic Castelnovian horizon found along both sides of the Mediterranean. I would continue to argue that the R1b Cardial Neolithic sample from Haak et al represents an enduring Mesolithic sample that adopted farming. The Gedmatch K36 results (although prone to error of course) shows no East Med component to the EN_Spain R1b person while both Stuttgart and NE1 have a substantial East Med component. From my perspective , the R1b Cardial EN sample is the analogue of the Karelian HG in the Mediterranean context."

    March 10, 2015 at 3:43 PM
    I haven't had time to compare the results of the individuals at Gedmatch.

    Alberstedt I0118 - M467300
    Halberstadt LBA I0099 M344778
    Corded Ware I0104 M622615
    Els Trocs Spain EN R1b1 I0410 M684242
    Karelian-HG (EHG_Oleniy_Ostrov I0061) M652848
    Yamna 1 (Yamnaya_Sok_River I0443) M951285
    Yamna 2 (Yamnaya I0231) M020637
    LBK I0054 - kit M206308
    Corded Ware I0103 - kit M966366
    Unetice I0047 - kit M370010
    Bell Beaker I0112 M117132
    Esperstedt I0172 M303249
    Last edited by ArmandoR1b; 03-11-2015 at 05:07 PM.

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    Here are the people with Hunter-Gatherer autosomal DNA from Felix's site http://www.y-str.org/p/ancient-dna.html

    Loschbour Loschbour, Luxembourg F999918
    Motala-12 Östergötland, Sweden F999917
    Ajvide58 Sweden F999924
    KO1 Tiszaszőlős-Domaháza, Hungary F999931
    La Brańa-Arintero León, Spain F999915

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    Or we could follow the conclusions drawn by Cruciani et al in 2010*, which explain this finding easily:

    R1b-V88.jpg

    *Fulvio Cruciani et al., Human Y chromosome haplogroup R-V88: a paternal genetic record of early mid Holocene trans-Saharan connections and the spread of Chadic languages, European Journal of Human Genetics (2010) pp. 1–8: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...g2009231a.html
    Last edited by Jean M; 03-11-2015 at 05:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Or we could follow the conclusions drawn by Cruciani et al in 2010, which explain this finding easily:

    R1b-V88.jpg
    That does seem like the more reasonable explanation. As an aside, the Early Spanish Neolithic has 11-20% East Mediterranean as well as tons of West Mediterranean on the Eurogenes K15 runs. While the R1b-V88 founder may have been a hunter-gatherer "neolithicized" from the east, a spread with cardial pottery seems the most plausible at this point.
    Last edited by ADW_1981; 03-11-2015 at 05:01 PM.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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    Here's my online summary from Mediterraneans before writing: http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/mediterraneans.shtml

    It seems that these early farmers spread one branch of the Afro-Asiatic language family which includes Ancient Egyptian, the Berber languages of North Africa and the Chadic languages of West Central Africa, while the Semitic branch remained in the Levant and Arabia. We can picture farmers or pastoralists fleeing the arid Levant and crossing to North Africa. It seems that they initially avoided the swampy Nile Delta, spreading instead along the coast. The climate crisis that had driven them out of the Levant also interrupted the Saharan humid phase with a dry spell lasting centuries. Gobero in Niger was abandoned between 6200 and 5200 BC. The people who arrived in 5200 BC were of a lightly-built Mediterranean type, combining hunting, fishing and herding. These new arrivals were taking advantage of the return of chains of lakes across the Sahara, before it gradually turned back to the desert we see today. There is a strong correlation between the Chadic languages and haplogroup R1b1c (V88). Its distribution suggests that it migrated south across the Sahara to Lake Chad at this time, leaving a pocket of V88 in what is now the Siwa oasis near the western border of Egypt. This is consistent with Christopher Ehret's deduction from linguistics that Proto-Chadic emerged about 5,000 BC among a people who had migrated to Lake Chad from the Sahara.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    a spread with cardial pottery seems the most plausible at this point.
    I don't see much evidence at the moment to tie it to Cardial Ware specifically. Els Trocs, the Neolithic site in Spain in which R1b was found, had three kinds of pottery, only one of which was Cardial. The spread into North Africa did not involve Cardial Ware. I would just label it Neolithic.

    We have evidence of some farmers arriving in Iberia via North Africa, so I initially guessed that the Els Trocs R1b could have taken that route, but when I looked on the map, that seemed a lot less likely.
    Last edited by Jean M; 03-11-2015 at 05:16 PM.

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