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Thread: Z251 Tree Structure

  1. #1
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    Z251 Tree Structure

    I'm starting a new thread for this. I believe that the current structure looks like the following (with its three subclades being FGC13899, Z16943, S11556). Only a little while ago, all we knew was that Z251 contained L555 and L583.

    Z251
    ...FGC13899
    ......A228
    .........A959
    .........A241
    ............A237

    ...Z16943
    ......CTS4157
    ......Z16944
    .........L555

    ...S11556
    ......Z17665
    .........Z18108
    .........S19558
    ......S9294
    .........Z18092
    .........FGC11986
    ............A555
    ...............L583
    ..................BY317
    ..................FGC11963

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  3. #2
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    I just checked and all the above SNPs are available for ordering off of FTDNA's advanced SNP order page. Since that is the case, I am going to try to convince them to finally put Z251 and as many downstream SNPs as possible on their haplotree. We'll see how far I get with this. It seems to have worked for Z253 SNPs.
    Last edited by seferhabahir; 03-16-2015 at 04:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seferhabahir View Post
    I just checked and all the above SNPs are available for ordering off of FTDNA's advanced SNP order page. Since that is the case, I am going to try to convince them to finally put Z251 and as many downstream SNPs as possible on their haplotree. We'll see how far I get with this. It seems to have worked for Z253 SNPs.
    It looks like we may have another branch under FGC13899. Quoting from Aaron Pierce of the Z251>FGC13899 Project: "And, obviously, we know Price, kit#9452, will also be FGC18229+ (since you share it and a couple other SNPs with NA11831, and you share a much more recent common ancestor with Price than with NA11831)." These three lines have no known connection since arriving in the US.
    Aaron goes on to say:
    I've taken a first look at the results. Just based on what's available through the FTDNA website (I haven't checked the raw data), Price shares at least 21 of the SNPs in your block on Alex Williamson's tree:

    FGC18230
    FGC18235
    FGC18240
    FGC18246
    FGC18247
    FGC18248
    FGC18249
    FGC18251
    FGC18253
    FGC18254
    FGC18256
    FGC18258
    FGC18259
    FGC18260
    FGC18265
    FGC18268
    FGC18269
    FGC18271
    FGC18272
    FGC18274
    FGC18276

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  7. #4
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    Just checked Alex Williamson's updated information on Z251 group and he now shows 3 individuals who share additional SNPs below FGC13899>FGC18229. They also share FGC18232 and FGC18233 as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenmunn View Post
    It looks like we may have another branch under FGC13899. Quoting from Aaron Pierce of the Z251>FGC13899 Project: "And, obviously, we know Price, kit#9452, will also be FGC18229+ (since you share it and a couple other SNPs with NA11831, and you share a much more recent common ancestor with Price than with NA11831)." These three lines have no known connection since arriving in the US.
    Yes, this does indeed look like FGC18229 would be below FGC13899 and parallel to A228. So, it it now looks like the below. However, I could not find FGC18229 in FTDNA's list of orderable SNPs so did not include it in my request to them to change their haplotree. I was hesitant to ask them to put something in their tree that was not on their list of orderable SNPs, but let's keep working the tree anyway.

    Z251
    ...FGC13899
    ......FGC18229
    ......A228
    .........A959
    .........A241
    ............A237
    ...Z16943
    ......CTS4157
    ......Z16944
    .........L555
    ...S11556
    ......Z17665
    .........Z18108
    .........S19558
    ......S9294
    .........Z18092
    .........FGC11986
    ............A555
    ...............L583
    ..................BY317
    ..................FGC11963

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    But wait, there's more (courtesy of the FGC13899 project)...

    Z251
    ...FGC13899
    ......FGC18229
    ......A228
    .........A959
    ............A1772
    ............A967
    ...............BY118
    ..................A970
    .........A241
    ............CTS9686
    ...............A237
    ............A551
    ...............A458

    ...Z16943
    ......CTS4157
    ......Z16944
    .........A2201
    .........L555

    ...S11556
    ......Z17665
    .........Z18108
    .........S19558
    ......S9294
    .........Z18092
    .........FGC11986
    ............A555
    ...............L583
    ..................BY317
    ..................FGC11963
    Last edited by seferhabahir; 03-17-2015 at 02:45 PM. Reason: Adding A2201 as parallel to L555

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  13. #7
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    Thank you for all your work.

    Quote Originally Posted by seferhabahir View Post
    I'm starting a new thread for this. I believe that the current structure looks like the following (with its three subclades being FGC13899, Z16943, S11556). Only a little while ago, all we knew was that Z251 contained L555 and L583.

    Z251
    ...FGC13899
    ......A228
    .........A959
    .........A241
    ............A237

    ...Z16943
    ......CTS4157
    ......Z16944
    .........L555

    ...S11556
    ......Z17665
    .........Z18108
    .........S19558
    ......S9294
    .........Z18092
    .........FGC11986
    ............A555
    ...............L583
    ..................BY317
    ..................FGC11963
    Thank you for all your work. It is appreciated...Donald J. McDonald

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  15. #8
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    I just got my Z251 plus results and they are S11556 T+ , Z18092 A+, Y11904 A+, FGC25450 T+. My test was done at YSEQ. ySearch number is 8NQXQ. Does this open up Z251 a bit more? I have no idea where the last 2 snp's are. Any info would be great.
    Thanks
    Tom

  16. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    I just got my Z251 plus results and they are S11556 T+ , Z18092 A+, Y11904 A+, FGC25450 T+. My test was done at YSEQ. ySearch number is 8NQXQ. Does this open up Z251 a bit more? I have no idea where the last 2 snp's are. Any info would be great.
    Thanks
    Tom
    Tom, you can get an idea from Alex Williamson's Z251 Tree that would give you some hints about currently known SNPs from NGS testing. I see Norman and McDonald results that have Z18092+. See: http://www.littlescottishcluster.com....php?blockID=1

  17. #10
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    Not sure that the other results provide any new structure, FGC25450 is a stray hit close to Z18092 and Y11904 according to YFull is under L1065 so must have recurred if you are positive?

    http://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L1065/

    What do you know of your origins? Surname is curious.

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