Page 1 of 35 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 345

Thread: Ancient South Asian DNA (including impact of PIE)

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,681
    Sex
    Location
    New York
    Ethnicity
    South Asian
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2b2-M241 (J-Y978*)
    mtDNA (M)
    M30b2a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1a1-L657 (R-Y16494)
    mtDNA (P)
    M18a

    United States of America Canada

    Ancient South Asian DNA (including impact of PIE)

    This was getting off-topic in the news thread. I tweaked the spreadsheet a little using invented ancient populations:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...V3JoYlE#gid=22

    It's in both K7 and K8 sheets. In K7 I used Yamnaya-like for PIE Steppe and in K8 I used a South Central Asian-like ancestor of Yamnaya to represent Steppe-origin PIE influence on South Asia. They both peak in India at around 38-39% of Haryana Jatts and are tracking the WHG component.

    The populations I put in are what I felt was missing to geographically separate the various clusters.

    South Asian - Himalayan (Pre/Early Neolithic) - This could also be considered "East Central Asian" in a way, since its impact would be felt far towards Central Asia. It's 33 ANE, 30 ASE, 36 East Eurasian (EDITED).
    South Asian (Pre/Early Neolithic) - Representing a hypothetical first South Asian population to result from a mixing of ENF and ASE, it's 50/50 ENF:ASE. (Note, these don't represent concurrent populations or layers of admixture)

    South Central Asian (Pre/Early Neolithic) - This represents the Gedrosia to Central Asia area, the first wave of ANE into the area. 70 ANE, 20 ASE, 10 ENF. It could be considered "West Central Asian" relative to the Himalayan component.
    South Central Asian (Early-Mid Neolithic) - This represents the same area as above, but is specifically dealing with PIE influence since it's based on Steppe populations and tracks the WHG component.

    Near East Farmers (Early Neolithic) - This is basically leftover ENF. (This mostly mixes later with Pre/Early Neolithic South Central Asian to form Gedrosian)
    Last edited by Dr_McNinja; 03-16-2015 at 11:42 PM.
    Paternal - Y-DNA: J2b2* (J-M241) Z2432+ Z2433+ Y978+ (J2b2a2b1*) (Hidden Content ) (YFull: YF02959) (FTDNA Kit B6225), mtDNA: M18a* (FTDNA Kit 329180) (YFull: YF63773)
    Maternal- Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2d5a* L657+ Y7+ (R-Y16494*) (FTDNA Kit 311047) (YFull: YF68408), mtDNA: Hidden Content (FTDNA Kit B6225) (YFull: YF02959) (Mother's Mother's Father: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2* Y7+ Y29+ (R-Y29*) (FTDNA Kit 329181) (YFull: YF65256))

  2. The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to Dr_McNinja For This Useful Post:

     Шад (11-07-2016),  Agamemnon (03-18-2015),  DMXX (03-16-2015),  everest59 (03-16-2015),  fil (03-24-2015),  Hando (03-17-2015),  Kaido (03-16-2015),  Krefter (03-16-2015),  MonkeyDLuffy (03-26-2015),  NK19191 (03-17-2015),  paulgill (04-01-2015),  pegasus (04-29-2015),  Rick (03-17-2015),  Sein (03-17-2015),  SwampThing27 (03-16-2015),  tamilgangster (03-17-2015),  Varun R (03-17-2015)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,681
    Sex
    Location
    New York
    Ethnicity
    South Asian
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2b2-M241 (J-Y978*)
    mtDNA (M)
    M30b2a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1a1-L657 (R-Y16494)
    mtDNA (P)
    M18a

    United States of America Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_McNinja View Post
    Near East Farmers (Early Neolithic) - This is basically leftover ENF. (This mostly mixes later with Pre/Early Neolithic South Central Asian to form Gedrosian)
    I added Everest's zombies of Harappa's S-Indian and Baloch components. Baloch comes out almost exactly 50% Pre/Early Neolithic South Central Asian and 50% Early Neolithic Near East Farmers in both K7 and K8 versions.
    Paternal - Y-DNA: J2b2* (J-M241) Z2432+ Z2433+ Y978+ (J2b2a2b1*) (Hidden Content ) (YFull: YF02959) (FTDNA Kit B6225), mtDNA: M18a* (FTDNA Kit 329180) (YFull: YF63773)
    Maternal- Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2d5a* L657+ Y7+ (R-Y16494*) (FTDNA Kit 311047) (YFull: YF68408), mtDNA: Hidden Content (FTDNA Kit B6225) (YFull: YF02959) (Mother's Mother's Father: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2* Y7+ Y29+ (R-Y29*) (FTDNA Kit 329181) (YFull: YF65256))

  4. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Dr_McNinja For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (03-18-2015),  Hando (03-17-2015),  jesus (03-17-2015),  Krefter (03-17-2015),  Megalophias (03-17-2015),  Sein (03-17-2015)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    656
    Sex
    Location
    Places
    Ethnicity
    Tamil

    Chola Empire India India Maratha Empire North Korea Kazakhstan Dravida Nadu
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_McNinja View Post
    This was getting off-topic in the news thread. I tweaked the spreadsheet a little using invented ancient populations:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...V3JoYlE#gid=22

    It's in both K7 and K8 sheets. In K7 I used Yamnaya-like for PIE Steppe and in K8 I used a South Central Asian-like ancestor of Yamnaya to represent Steppe-origin PIE influence on South Asia. They both peak in India at around 38-39% of Haryana Jatts and are tracking the WHG component.

    The populations I put in are what I felt was missing to geographically separate the various clusters.

    South Asian - Himalayan (Pre/Early Neolithic) - This could also be considered "East Central Asian" in a way, since its impact would be felt far towards Central Asia. It's 33 ANE, 30 ASE, 36 East Eurasian (EDITED).
    South Asian (Pre/Early Neolithic) - Representing a hypothetical first South Asian population to result from a mixing of ENF and ASE, it's 50/50 ENF:ASE. (Note, these don't represent concurrent populations or layers of admixture)

    South Central Asian (Pre/Early Neolithic) - This represents the Gedrosia to Central Asia area, the first wave of ANE into the area. 70 ANE, 20 ASE, 10 ENF. It could be considered "West Central Asian" relative to the Himalayan component.
    South Central Asian (Early-Mid Neolithic) - This represents the same area as above, but is specifically dealing with PIE influence since it's based on Steppe populations and tracks the WHG component.

    Near East Farmers (Early Neolithic) - This is basically leftover ENF. (This mostly mixes later with Pre/Early Neolithic South Central Asian to form Gedrosian)
    How did you come up with these populations, and do they represent possible ancestral populations. Are these populations mutually exclusive. If so what would be their chronological order of when these populatins entered south asia and which group would you speculate to to be the bearer of dravidian languages

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to tamilgangster For This Useful Post:

     Hando (03-17-2015)

  7. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,681
    Sex
    Location
    New York
    Ethnicity
    South Asian
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2b2-M241 (J-Y978*)
    mtDNA (M)
    M30b2a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1a1-L657 (R-Y16494)
    mtDNA (P)
    M18a

    United States of America Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by tamilgangster View Post
    How did you come up with these populations, and do they represent possible ancestral populations. Are these populations mutually exclusive. If so what would be their chronological order of when these populatins entered south asia and which group would you speculate to to be the bearer of dravidian languages
    The two South Asian populations would represent two possible subcontinental ancestors of modern South Asians, themselves comprised of ANE, ASE, East Eurasian, and ENF admixture. I figure North India/Himalayas would have been a reservoir of habitation and population admixture since as early as multiple human populations inhabited the subcontinent, at least as much as Southeast India.

    The Pre/Early Neolithic SC-Asian and Early Neolithic Farmers are together akin to the Baloch/Gedrosian component, but split up represent their possible ancestor populations.

    The primary South Asian component is the most tricky, since we have no idea what that would really be without ancient DNA. In this scenario, I'm supposing ENF got to the South at least, before ANE. ANE came in to the North (Himalayas) and swept into SC-Asia in a major way before mixing with a bunch of ENF to give modern day "Gedrosian". The exact area of this is speculative, but I suppose it could have occurred anywhere between Balochistan and Central Asia.

    The Steppe component is the most recent, chronologically, and just represents the PIE expansion. Except for the PIE component, the others would be chronologically overlapping pre and early neolithic timeframes.

    Another probably valid (if not moreso) scenario is ANE hitting South Asia before the early neolithic farmers. So South Asian would be like 50 ASE/50 ANE. It wouldn't alter the proportions in the spreadsheet too much though, a little less Gedrosian total, a little more South Asian total, a lot more leftover ENF.
    Paternal - Y-DNA: J2b2* (J-M241) Z2432+ Z2433+ Y978+ (J2b2a2b1*) (Hidden Content ) (YFull: YF02959) (FTDNA Kit B6225), mtDNA: M18a* (FTDNA Kit 329180) (YFull: YF63773)
    Maternal- Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2d5a* L657+ Y7+ (R-Y16494*) (FTDNA Kit 311047) (YFull: YF68408), mtDNA: Hidden Content (FTDNA Kit B6225) (YFull: YF02959) (Mother's Mother's Father: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2* Y7+ Y29+ (R-Y29*) (FTDNA Kit 329181) (YFull: YF65256))

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dr_McNinja For This Useful Post:

     Hando (03-17-2015),  parasar (03-17-2015),  Sein (03-17-2015)

  9. #5
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    8,152

    Dr_McNinja,

    I was wondering if in the absence of any ancient DNA from South Asia you (or someone else who has the genome data from Reich) could try using the following two as proxies for two south Asian components:
    1. Ust-Ishim
    2. ID I0174 Starcevo_EN MAMS-11939

    Thanks.

  10. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to parasar For This Useful Post:

     Dr_McNinja (03-17-2015),  Hando (03-18-2015),  Kurd (03-18-2015),  Sein (03-17-2015)

  11. #6
    Banned
    Posts
    1,103
    Sex
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Ethnicity
    Pashtun
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a1a1-M417 (Z94).
    mtDNA (M)
    M4'67

    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Dr_McNinja,

    I was wondering if in the absence of any ancient DNA from South Asia you (or someone else who has the genome data from Reich) could try using the following two as proxies for two south Asian components:
    1. Ust-Ishim
    2. ID I0174 Starcevo_EN MAMS-11939

    Thanks.
    Interestingly, the best fit David has yet to find for the HGDP Pashtuns involves Starcevo_EN!

    47% Yamnaya + 43.2% Starcevo_EN + 9.8% Dai

    In addition to being the best fit David has found so far, it is also a good fit, in contrast to the other two fits (50.1% BedouinB + 35.3% MA1 + 14.6% Ami, and 54% Armenian + 31.1% Yamnaya + 15% Kusunda).

  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Sein For This Useful Post:

     Dr_McNinja (03-17-2015),  Hando (03-18-2015),  Krefter (03-18-2015),  parasar (03-17-2015)

  13. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,681
    Sex
    Location
    New York
    Ethnicity
    South Asian
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2b2-M241 (J-Y978*)
    mtDNA (M)
    M30b2a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1a1-L657 (R-Y16494)
    mtDNA (P)
    M18a

    United States of America Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Dr_McNinja,

    I was wondering if in the absence of any ancient DNA from South Asia you (or someone else who has the genome data from Reich) could try using the following two as proxies for two south Asian components:
    1. Ust-Ishim
    2. ID I0174 Starcevo_EN MAMS-11939

    Thanks.
    Has anyone uploaded Starcevo to Gedmatch or run it through K7 or K8?

    Ust-Ishim is too difficult to use as a spreadsheet filter on K7/K8 results, it would have to be done in a supervised run of admixture likely. It isn't tracking any single component per say and has a ton of African.
    Paternal - Y-DNA: J2b2* (J-M241) Z2432+ Z2433+ Y978+ (J2b2a2b1*) (Hidden Content ) (YFull: YF02959) (FTDNA Kit B6225), mtDNA: M18a* (FTDNA Kit 329180) (YFull: YF63773)
    Maternal- Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2d5a* L657+ Y7+ (R-Y16494*) (FTDNA Kit 311047) (YFull: YF68408), mtDNA: Hidden Content (FTDNA Kit B6225) (YFull: YF02959) (Mother's Mother's Father: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2* Y7+ Y29+ (R-Y29*) (FTDNA Kit 329181) (YFull: YF65256))

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dr_McNinja For This Useful Post:

     Hando (03-18-2015),  parasar (03-17-2015)

  15. #8
    So who are your Sea of Mamara dairy farmers now that they can't really be R1b, Jean? Y J2?

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to newtoboard For This Useful Post:

     Hando (03-18-2015)

  17. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    829
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Nepalese
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    C5a
    mtDNA (M)
    N1e'I

    Nepal United States of America
    I uploaded a Behar Paniya sample to Gedmatch :M960763.

    At 200 snp's, 1 cm and bunching limit at 25, it gets no match with MA1.

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to everest59 For This Useful Post:

     Hando (03-18-2015),  Kurd (03-18-2015),  soulblighter (03-17-2015)

  19. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    829
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Nepalese
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    C5a
    mtDNA (M)
    N1e'I

    Nepal United States of America
    Quote Originally Posted by Sein View Post
    Interestingly, the best fit David has yet to find for the HGDP Pashtuns involves Starcevo_EN!

    47% Yamnaya + 43.2% Starcevo_EN + 9.8% Dai

    In addition to being the best fit David has found so far, it is also a good fit, in contrast to the other two fits (50.1% BedouinB + 35.3% MA1 + 14.6% Ami, and 54% Armenian + 31.1% Yamnaya + 15% Kusunda).
    I tried Pathans as a mix of Yamnaya; BedouinB and Dai. I get:
    best coefficients: 0.540 0.323 0.136

    The software is pretty sensitive to popright populations.

    For Sindhis:
    0.486 0.366 0.148

  20. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to everest59 For This Useful Post:

     Hando (03-18-2015),  kenji.aryan (04-22-2015),  Krefter (03-18-2015),  Sein (03-18-2015)

Page 1 of 35 12311 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 01-18-2021, 09:38 PM
  2. Replies: 87
    Last Post: 10-09-2020, 07:43 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-21-2018, 10:29 PM
  4. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 06-27-2018, 11:18 AM
  5. Religious impact of genetics in South Asia
    By Lara101 in forum Southern
    Replies: 145
    Last Post: 11-15-2017, 05:04 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •