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Thread: YFull verifies that earliest offshoot of I-l161 is Polish

  1. #21
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    I thought YFull date L1287 to c. 18 kya ? (Ie formed, not the TMRCA of modern groups).
    Are some of the Swedish HG, and possibly KO1, L1287* ?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    I thought YFull date L1287 to c. 18 kya ? (Ie formed, not the TMRCA of modern groups).
    I-L1287 split from its sibling I-L158 over 18,000 years ago. But of course, we don't know where that occurred, nor where they wandered in the many succeeding millennia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    Are some of the Swedish HG, and possibly KO1, L1287* ?
    Genetiker asserts that Motala-9 is L1287+ . But even if that is correct, it does not tell us whether L1287 was once "spread widely."

  3. #23
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    We don't know where L1287 occurred, I agree, however, I am L233, so I suppose this is what I was referring to by I2a1c. As we know, L233 is relatively young, and seems to appear mostly in NW Continental Europe and the British Isles. Of course, more Brits are Testing than Germans, etc. So when I was asking if I2a1c was still thought to be a Continental "son", and perhaps a Germanic transmit to the Isles, I meant the young L233. All of my traceable Paternal Line was from Yorkshire, England, and our original surname was Brooks (pre Boer War).

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  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgmayka View Post
    I-L1287 split from its sibling I-L158 over 18,000 years ago. But of course, we don't know where that occurred, nor where they wandered in the many succeeding millennia.

    Genetiker asserts that Motala-9 is L1287+ . But even if that is correct, it does not tell us whether L1287 was once "spread widely."
    I have a suspicion that some of the Hungarian samples deemed P37 might be L1287 (source tba). And given the open networks of foragers, my statement that L1287 might have had a wide but thin distribution in pre-Neolithic Europe appears appropriate ....

  6. #25
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    http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-10/1443815038

    Ken Nordtvedt:

    Seems today the BigY for an extremely early L161 branch is reported out?
    And interesting place of origin--- Turkey!

    Krasimir Sakaliev:

    I found the following SNPs in his VCF file which he shares with the two
    Polish guys at http://yfull.com/tree/I-Y13330/

    Y13576 8366419 G A
    Y13577 8507893 T A
    Y13578 8561878 T C
    Y13580 8594972 G A
    Y13583 9003284 C T
    Y13585 13988450 C G
    Y13592 15691096 T C
    Y13593 15828757 A G
    Y13573 17670241 G A
    Y13335 17956828 G A
    Y13594 18706051 A C
    Y13338 18948775 T G
    Y13600 21727526 A C
    Y13601 21822782 T A
    Y13603 23326756 C T
    Y13605 23957180 T A
    http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-10/1443888005

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  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravetti View Post
    http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-10/1443815038

    Ken Nordtvedt:

    Seems today the BigY for an extremely early L161 branch is reported out?
    And interesting place of origin--- Turkey!

    Krasimir Sakaliev:

    I found the following SNPs in his VCF file which he shares with the two
    Polish guys at http://yfull.com/tree/I-Y13330/

    Y13576 8366419 G A
    Y13577 8507893 T A
    Y13578 8561878 T C
    Y13580 8594972 G A
    Y13583 9003284 C T
    Y13585 13988450 C G
    Y13592 15691096 T C
    Y13593 15828757 A G
    Y13573 17670241 G A
    Y13335 17956828 G A
    Y13594 18706051 A C
    Y13338 18948775 T G
    Y13600 21727526 A C
    Y13601 21822782 T A
    Y13603 23326756 C T
    Y13605 23957180 T A
    http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-10/1443888005
    He's not Turkish . He's Bulgarian

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  10. #27
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    It looks like Neolithic Anatolia had haplogroup I also (in addition to C)
    Let's see which specific clades they were ....
    Last edited by Gravetto-Danubian; 10-10-2015 at 07:22 AM.

  11. #28
    In Yfull we have now one sample from Bulgaria (I-Y13331*) and two samples from Poland (mentioned in first post in the topic) - I-Y13330 (https://yfull.com/tree/I-Y13331/).
    It is interesting who bearers of this haplogroup were about 3000 years ago. I suppose that they might be members of "Pre-Slavic" population.
    TMRCA of I-Y13331* and I-Y13330 is much larger (about 1600 years) than TMRCA of very popular I-CTS10228 (https://yfull.com/tree/I-CTS10228/).

  12. #29
    It is always a mistake to say 'earliest offshoot'. It usually means 'least studied offshoot' or 'offshoot with the least branches'. This one actually has a much more recent TMRCA than the main S2639 and is Bronze (4000bp). It is generally eastern European - Poland Bulgaria and Germany. It is a bit of an anomaly
    Last edited by joeflood; 08-16-2016 at 11:40 AM.

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeflood View Post
    It is a bit of an anomaly
    That is exactly why some people call it an offshoot--because it is not the most populous, most studied, or most commonly expected branch. In colloquial terms, it appears to be "a branch that grows on one of the main stems."

    The splitting of L161 into Y13331 and S2639 is indeed the earliest branching of that clade. Such branch points on the haplotree can be very useful in tracking (or at least hypothesizing) prehistoric migrations.
    Last edited by lgmayka; 08-17-2016 at 01:19 PM.

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