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Thread: Where were any of the DF13's Subclades located between 200bc to 200AD

  1. #21
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    From about #17, if not before, this thread is much more general, ancient -- and interesting, than its DF13 around the year 1, plus or minus 200 subject line would suggest to the broader public.

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     Gray Fox (04-18-2015)

  3. #22
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    The final route over 21000 years setting the stage for DF13 in my day dreaming.

    https://www.google.com/maps/dir/52.9...49.4598369!3e2

    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1’s father’s sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by razyn View Post
    From about #17, if not before, this thread is much more general, ancient -- and interesting, than its DF13 around the year 1, plus or minus 200 subject line would suggest to the broader public.
    I know but I feel like their was a need to set the stage for ending up in central and southern Germany. I will try to get to the isle.

    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1’s father’s sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    IMHO, DF41/CTS2501 is primarily Brythonic. Chris McCown summed things up pretty well here.
    I have slightly different view on this but that perhaps that's due to been A100+

    What we should note is that the the differenation of Insular Celtic into Goidelic and Brythonic is probably quite a late development. Most of the key sound changes that differenate them don't seem to have occurred until after 1st century AD. So for example the River Severn is called "Sabrina" by the Roman's, in Brythonic /s/ underwent sound change to /h/ so as a result the river is called Hafren (Habren in Old Welsh).

    A good comparison with is compare the word for "old" in Irish and Welsh:
    *sénos (Proto-IE) -> *senos (proto-celtic) -> sen (old Irish) -> sean (modern Irish -- pronounced "shan")
    *sénos (Proto-IE) -> *senos (proto-celtic) -> hen (both welsh and Breton)

    Likewise /w/ (often writen as w or v) from proto-Celtic underwent seperate sound changes in goidelic (w/v -> f) and Brythonic (w/v -> gw) these don't appear to be evident in the Roman period (going off roman inscriptions of British names and of course "archaic Irish" of Ogham Stones)

    So I think it's probably more correct to think of it as a general "insular Celtic" language contact area as oppose to later divisions of Goidelic/Brythonic which there doesn't appear to be any firm evidence of (excluding of course the fact that in Britain we see sharing of q -> p sound change shared with Gaulish) before the Roman conquest of southern Britain.
    Last edited by Dubhthach; 04-18-2015 at 06:50 PM.
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