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Thread: My R1b result stops at L51, any reason for this?

  1. #1
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    My R1b result stops at L51, any reason for this?

    My 23andme results left me a bit frustrated, I got R1b1b2a1a which doesn't tell me whether I'm U106, U152 etc... it stops before the split (L51)

    Does it mean I belong to a subclade not dealt with 23andme or that I'm just a plain R1b?

    ALSO while I'm at it: my speculative results show 9.8% of british and irish, is it relevant or just noise, knowing I have no known british ancestry?

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    SNPs unplaced or discovered after the ISOGG 2010 tree (http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR10.html) have not been included in later versions (v3, v4) of the chip used by 23andMe.

    If your results are the following:

    L51: rs9786140 = A vs. ancestral G https://www.23andme.com/you/explorer...name=rs9786140

    L11/S127: rs9786076 = T vs. derived C https://www.23andme.com/you/explorer...name=rs9786076
    L52 : rs13304168 = C vs. derived T https://www.23andme.com/you/explorer...ame=rs13304168
    L151 : rs2082033 = C vs. derived T https://www.23andme.com/you/explorer...name=rs2082033
    P310/S129 : rs9786283 = A vs. derived C https://www.23andme.com/you/explorer...name=rs9786283
    P311/S128 : rs9785659 = A vs. derived G https://www.23andme.com/you/explorer...name=rs9785659

    Chances are good that you will fall into a subclade below R-PF7589/Z2118, CTS5981/S1157/Z2115, which was initially identified in 2012 and later.

    See https://www.familytreedna.com/groups.../about/results

    The population finder reports ethnicity of reference samples and matching segments of other kits. Those samples and the other kits only report ethnicity up to a few generations, but it *should* be known, that a significant percentage of British folk had multiple ancestors of continental European origin over hundreds, even thousands of years previous, i.e. so-called "Norman" and "Anglo-Saxon invaders" within the past two millennia especially. So, it is relevant and not noise, but the interpretation and fact of the situation is somewhat opposite to how the report is presented and perceived by many people.

    Essentially, 9.8% of your matching DNA with people who are British and Irish actually have unknown or unreported continental origins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceT View Post
    SNPs unplaced or discovered after the ISOGG 2010 tree (http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR10.html) have not been included in later versions (v3, v4) of the chip used by 23andMe.

    If your results are the following:

    L51: rs9786140 = A vs. ancestral G https://www.23andme.com/you/explorer...name=rs9786140

    L11/S127: rs9786076 = T vs. derived C https://www.23andme.com/you/explorer...name=rs9786076
    L52 : rs13304168 = C vs. derived T https://www.23andme.com/you/explorer...ame=rs13304168
    L151 : rs2082033 = C vs. derived T https://www.23andme.com/you/explorer...name=rs2082033
    P310/S129 : rs9786283 = A vs. derived C https://www.23andme.com/you/explorer...name=rs9786283
    P311/S128 : rs9785659 = A vs. derived G https://www.23andme.com/you/explorer...name=rs9785659
    Thanks...

    Unfortunately I have either "no call" or no SNP at all on all of the above except the L51 one...

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    According to 23andMe's mutation listing the R1b1b2a1a defining mutations are:

    rs13304168 (L52) C->T
    rs9785659 (P311) A->G
    rs9786076 (L11) T->C
    rs9786283 (P310) A->C

    23andMe from years ago (V2 chip, IIRC) shows me as R1b1b2a1a1d* (R-L48*), so they were certainly able to test deeper back when.

    I have since tested way past that with FTDNA's Big Y.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tchekitchek View Post
    Unfortunately I have either "no call" or no SNP at all on all of the above except the L51 one...
    I see that VinceT posted while I was dawdling over coffee.

    If you are interested in finding your haplogroup then I would suggest going all out and doing one of the 'next generation sequencing' (NGS) type tests offered by FTDNA or Full Genomes Corp.

    They are not cheap, but IMO they certainly beat the trial and error SNP-by-SNP method, in which you test against other people's SNPs in the hope that you might match a known one. Such strategies usually rely on there being STR markers to guess which SNPs to test for.

    With NGS you get your own SNPs, and usually a good indication of which haplogroup branch is yours. (More detailed analysis of the huge amount of data you get back from these tests usually requires the expertise of people administering the various haplogroup projects.)
    Last edited by GTC; 04-11-2015 at 07:05 AM.

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     tchekitchek (05-08-2015)

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    Quote Originally Posted by tchekitchek View Post
    My 23andme results left me a bit frustrated, I got R1b1b2a1a which doesn't tell me whether I'm U106, U152 etc... it stops before the split (L51)

    Does it mean I belong to a subclade not dealt with 23andme or that I'm just a plain R1b?

    ALSO while I'm at it: my speculative results show 9.8% of british and irish, is it relevant or just noise, knowing I have no known british ancestry?
    You're at least L11+, and possibly P312+. Unfortunately it is impossible to say because the v4 chip does not yield a result for this SNP. The number of L11 (xP312, xU106) people is rather low so I think the odds are in your favour for being P312+. Can't say for certain though.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to ADW_1981 For This Useful Post:

     tchekitchek (05-08-2015)

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    Thanks. I'll consider myself some sort of P312... until I find a way to dig deeper

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