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Thread: FGC3213

  1. #1
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    FGC3213

    So I have my results and I am FGC3213. Hopefully this will help me to figure out some clues for my deep ancestry.

    Tests Taken

    L21+, P312+, DF13+, DF21+, FGC3213+, Z246-, L876-, DF41-, L144-, L159-, L193-, P314-, P66-, U106-, L226-, L96-, M222-, M37-


    Both my parent's families come from North Germany (Lower Saxony [Kingdom of Hanover] and Prussia) and I have some Great Grandparents from Scandinavia. This is pretty clear when I look at my autosomal DNA that I seem to be mostly Germanic, but I know I have some Celtic too.

    My K13
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 44.74
    2 Baltic 30.99
    3 West_Med 10.43
    4 East_Med 6.31
    5 West_Asian 4.44
    6 South_Asian 1.23
    7 Siberian 0.81
    8 Oceanian 0.69
    9 Red_Sea 0.36

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population Distance
    1 North_German 4.97
    2 Swedish 5.63
    3 Danish 6.64
    4 North_Dutch 7.16
    5 Norwegian 7.35
    6 North_Swedish 7.54
    7 East_German 7.75
    8 Austrian 8.28
    9 Orcadian 9.08
    10 West_German 9.15


    I know Rory of the DF21 project says that I possibly have some Welsh matches, but I know there was not much Welsh immigration to Germany. My last name is Wright, which was anglicized from Reith after my Great Great Grandfather changed it after he fought in the Civil War. It was pronounced as Rite, in German for there is no -th sound. Reith in German is usually means "short for Reither" as in horseback Rider (Hey he was in the Cavalry ), close to Ritter or a "forest clearing." Now this Frederick Reith named his sons such as Ulrich, Johann and Carl. The census also lists him speaking German at home. So I am pretty sure this guy was from Germany.d1891901-e4cf-4c02-8672-bbe148629314.jpgOrigins.jpgReith.jpg

    Now I know there is a Scottish surname of Reith, and it would be very easy to say my Y line was a Scot (which I think would be kinda cool). During the Northern Crusades, many a Scottish noble campaigned in Northern Germany. Then there was a large migration of Scottish merchants in the 1500-1600s and then an even larger of influx of Scots (50,000)during the 30 Years War.

    Among these, the fate of the Scottish princess Elizabeth of Bohemia (daughter of King James VI & I) proved to be a key concern. Up to 50,000 Scottish troops[2] arrived on the continent having been levied on warrants issued by the Privy Council and countersigned by their king, usually at periods corresponding to the participation of a particular ally in a campaign against the Habsburgs. They mostly served initially in established Scottish brigades in the Dutch Republic and Sweden which had existed before 1618. Later, specially commissioned army groups were also created in Denmark-Norway and France in order to facilitate further Scottish participation. Some fought for better prospects, some for kin loyalty, not a few for dynastic and confessional considerations. A few, the minority, were plain mercenaries. Although Scots participated from the start of the war until the end, formal participation by the nation was limited. Scotland formally declared war on Spain (1625-1630) and France (1627-1629), but for the most part, Scots engaged in foreign service with consent from their monarch and under warrants issued by the Privy Council but in armies commanded by their European allies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotlan...y_Years%27_War

    Do you think I should focus on that possibility? Or can anyone tell if my DF21 seems to be "old" as in a Bell Beaker/Indo-European/Proto-Celtic/Celtic line that stayed in the area that was once inhabited by the Celts (Belgae? Teutons? Cimbri? etc) prior to Germanic Migrations?



    The linguistic affinities of the Teutones are a matter of dispute amongst historians. Their name is Celtic in form and many writers believe that the Teutones really were Celts, perhaps stemming from a branch of the Helvetii;[4] however, a people of this name are mentioned by the early traveller, Pytheas, as inhabitants of the northern ocean coasts. Strabo and Marcus Velleius Paterculus, moreover, classify them as Germanic peoples, and this is perhaps a more probable view,[4] although the distinction between Celts and Teutones,[which?][4] is not clearly realized by some earlier historians.[clarification needed][4] If the Teutones really came from the same quarter as the Cimbri, it is possible that their name may have been preserved in the Thyland or Thythsyssel regions, found in the far north-west of Jutland.[4]

    The Cimbri are depicted as ferocious warriors who did not fear death. The host was followed by women and children on carts. Aged women, priestesses, dressed in white sacrificed the prisoners of war and sprinkled their blood, the nature of which allowed them to see what was to come.

    If the Cimbri did in fact come from Jutland, evidence that they practised ritualistic sacrifice may be found in the Haraldskær Woman discovered in Jutland in the year 1835. Noosemarks and skin piercing were evident and she had been thrown into a bog rather than buried or cremated. Furthermore, the Gundestrup cauldron, found in Himmerland, may be a sacrificial vessel like the one described in Strabo's text. The work itself was of Thracian origin.



    Ancient sources such as Caesar are unclear about the things used to define ethnicity today. He describes the Belgae as both Celtic (or at least Gaulish) and Germanic (at least some of them, and at least by descent). Strabo stated that the differences between the Celts (Gauls) and Belgae, in countenance, language, politics and way of life was a small one, unlike the difference between the Aquitanians and Celts.[9] On the other hand it has been proposed that there could have been more than one language within the region, and also possibly differences between the language of the elite and the rest of the population. Many modern scholars believe that the Belgae were a firmly Celtic-speaking group.[10][11][12][13] However, at least part of the Belgae may also have had significant genetic, cultural and historical connections to peoples east of the Rhine, including Germanic peoples, judging from archaeological, placename, and textual evidence.[14][15] It has also been argued based on placename studies that the older language of the area, though apparently Indo-European, was not Celtic (see Nordwestblock) and that Celtic, though influential amongst the elite, might never have been the main language of the part of the Belgic area north of the Ardennes.[16][17]

    Thank you for all your help to date,

    Christian

  2. #2
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    I had already included you in the FGC3213 section of my database, here are some ancient Irish surnames you match

    80166 Sullivan, distance from Reith at 111 markers is 20
    318218 Driscol distance from Reith at 111 markers is 22
    10119 McCarthy distance from Reith at 111 markers is 22
    171553 Hackett distance from Reith at 111 markers is 22
    241486 Keenan distance from Reith at 111 markers is 24
    109330 Kelly distance from Reith at 111 markers is 25

    This means that your origin is Irish from the Corca Laidhe/Muscraige region of the West of Ireland, if you look at the GD between yourself and the Little Scottish FGC3213 Cluster then you will see that it increases into the mid 30's (distance to 12461 Hind is 35) so there is no suggestion of a continental origin for FGC3213 to be found here.

    The Driscol surname is associated with the Dal Fiatach who were related to the Dal Riada and this is also reflected in my own L720 with a Driscol from Cork having the same L720 signature as the my ancient Scottish matches from 1500 years ago which is reflected in the GD of around 20 at 111 markers between your matching Driscol and also in my ancient Scottish matches which are also in this range. All this suggests that the Dal Riada migration to Scotland was DF21 and consisted of its various differant clades and that DF21 is Uladh in origin. If you look at the GD between two FGC3213 Driscol's (318218 and 21275) you find that the distance is also 22 which gives the same time frame of around 1500 years ago.

    These are not coincidences, some of the Irish surnames above are Eoghnacht in origin and this reflects the eventual superiority gained by the Leinster Eoghnacht which is primarily South Irish in origin and a late arrival in Ireland, the Corca Laidhe became nothing more that Vassels to the Eoghnacht hence the DNA mix of DF21 and South Irish with Eoghnacht surnames.
    Last edited by oneillabu; 04-17-2015 at 07:28 PM.

  3. #3
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    Thank you for your reply. To sum up, it looks like my Y ancestor was Irish?

    You obviously know a lot on this subject, but I thought Irish was ruled out according this post:

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...-etc%29/page11

    That Gent there states that I do not cluster with the Irish and then recently Rory says I have some Welsh matches.

    Just a little confused ...

  4. #4
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    You had not tested positive for FGC3213 when this post was made, this FGC3213+ result is a game changer

  5. #5
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    OK, thats cool....

    I was just reading about Irish families that I have no idea to pronounce

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneillabu View Post
    I had already included you in the FGC3213 section of my database, here are some ancient Irish surnames you match

    80166 Sullivan, distance from Reith at 111 markers is 20
    318218 Driscol distance from Reith at 111 markers is 22
    10119 McCarthy distance from Reith at 111 markers is 22
    171553 Hackett distance from Reith at 111 markers is 22
    241486 Keenan distance from Reith at 111 markers is 24
    109330 Kelly distance from Reith at 111 markers is 25

    This means that your origin is Irish from the Corca Laidhe/Muscraige region of the West of Ireland, if you look at the GD between yourself and the Little Scottish FGC3213 Cluster then you will see that it increases into the mid 30's (distance to 12461 Hind is 35) so there is no suggestion of a continental origin for FGC3213 to be found here.

    The Driscol surname is associated with the Dal Fiatach who were related to the Dal Riada and this is also reflected in my own L720 with a Driscol from Cork having the same L720 signature as the my ancient Scottish matches from 1500 years ago which is reflected in the GD of around 20 at 111 markers between your matching Driscol and also in my ancient Scottish matches which are also in this range. All this suggests that the Dal Riada migration to Scotland was DF21 and consisted of its various differant clades and that DF21 is Uladh in origin. If you look at the GD between two FGC3213 Driscol's (318218 and 21275) you find that the distance is also 22 which gives the same time frame of around 1500 years ago.

    These are not coincidences, some of the Irish surnames above are Eoghnacht in origin and this reflects the eventual superiority gained by the Leinster Eoghnacht which is primarily South Irish in origin and a late arrival in Ireland, the Corca Laidhe became nothing more that Vassels to the Eoghnacht hence the DNA mix of DF21 and South Irish with Eoghnacht surnames.
    All of those clans were Gaels right?

  7. #7
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    Yes, they would be Goidelic speaking like all ancient Irish

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to oneillabu For This Useful Post:

     Reith (04-17-2015)

  9. #8
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    Cool, Gaels were badasses...

  10. #9
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    Now how to find out a Gael wound up in the Kindom of Hanover by the late 1700s to become German speakers...

    Wild Goose?

  11. #10
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    There my friend is a mystery only you can solve, stick an Irish Tri-colour in your flag selections to reflect membership of the bad-ass club but remember that the Druids were also Brythonic Celts and divined the future from the entrails of their enemies so our Celtic cousins from Britain are not to be trifled with either

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