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Thread: The Cimbri - Celtic or Germanic?

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by glentane View Post
    Dobber. In what way is that person a woman? Or even a gaidhilig speaker? Explain to a simple-minded Scotsman please. The very one wearing identical breeks to the so-called Cernunnos and every single one of the poor bloody infantry depicted?

    This one. Rubbish tits for a start (my specialist subject, ladies), don't even think of defending the rest of "it".
    https://thenewpagan.files.wordpress....pg?w=300&h=242
    tl;dr americans are mental there is no cure.
    Desperate. Get yourselves a proper culture. Maybe ask the Appalachian folk if you can steal theirs?
    Think I will retreat from this thread - for obvious reasons. The USA has been very good to this Canadian with an Appalachian - Ozark wife, and I take great exception to slights by foreign people against the country which has given me so many opportunities.

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  3. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by falconson1 View Post
    Think I will retreat from this thread - for obvious reasons. The USA has been very good to this Canadian with an Appalachian - Ozark wife, and I take great exception to slights by foreign people against the country which has given me so many opportunities.
    I'm sorry about this. I would like to have known more about what I asked in #137. Perhaps you could pm me? I'm genuinely curious, appreciate the scale of the work you've put into this area and have no desire to dissuade you from your views. Thanks.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    Wales-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    North England-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

  4. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    Just wanted to say if you're still monitoring this thread that I downloaded and read your first two hypotheses today. I didn't agree with all you said, particularly on the linguistic evidence, but you've done a rigorous job of a kind that's rarely seen outside specialist academia. I particularly enjoyed the sections on the depopulation of the Anglian homeland and am grateful to you for making this available for all to read. I do have a question: I've seen a riposte to the Morimarusa theory but was particularly interested in this passage of yours because it seems to me the linguistic evidence is absolutely key: "Other evidence as to the language spoken by the Cimbri can be seen in the actions of the Roman intelligence service of Marius, run by Sertorius, which sent spies who spoke Gaulish Celtic into the Cimbri camp in 101 BC. They were able to understand the language of the Cimbri so they could report back details of importance to their masters." I'm not familiar with the primary source so would like to know whether it says the spies listened directly to the Cimbric leadership. Otherwise of course they could equally have overhead or spoken with the many Celts who scholars agree would inevitably have been picked up along the road by this stage. I'm sure you've considered all this but would appreciate more detail... I often wish the ancients could have anticipated our questions and firmed up more of their observations on tribes and peoples. Unfortunately it is what it is and I'm still grateful for what we have.
    Hello JonikW, it is also frustrating that translations of early Greek and Roman works are often poor (inaccurate) and inconsistent between translated versions. I have kept all of the references to what appears in my Cimbri paper, and they mostly reside in two large sized ring binders - which I have not looked at in 15 or so years. Tempting as it was, fortunately I decided not to pitch them when we moved earlier this year. I am not sure how long it will take me to locate the source of the info you are seeking (especially considering my schedule for the next few weeks). If perchance the reference is within one of the books of translated "Classical" texts on my book shelves ...... well, I will chip away at the task and report back if / when I luck upon it.

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  6. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by falconson1 View Post
    Hello JonikW, it is also frustrating that translations of early Greek and Roman works are often poor (inaccurate) and inconsistent between translated versions. I have kept all of the references to what appears in my Cimbri paper, and they mostly reside in two large sized ring binders - which I have not looked at in 15 or so years. Tempting as it was, fortunately I decided not to pitch them when we moved earlier this year. I am not sure how long it will take me to locate the source of the info you are seeking (especially considering my schedule for the next few weeks). If perchance the reference is within one of the books of translated "Classical" texts on my book shelves ...... well, I will chip away at the task and report back if / when I luck upon it.
    Much appreciated. I'm particularly intrigued based on something I posted at #22 here today regarding the possibility of Celts in 4th century Friesland. I'm always ready to have my assumptions overturned if the evidence is there.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    Wales-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    North England-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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  8. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by falconson1 View Post
    Hello JonikW, it is also frustrating that translations of early Greek and Roman works are often poor (inaccurate) and inconsistent between translated versions. I have kept all of the references to what appears in my Cimbri paper, and they mostly reside in two large sized ring binders - which I have not looked at in 15 or so years. Tempting as it was, fortunately I decided not to pitch them when we moved earlier this year. I am not sure how long it will take me to locate the source of the info you are seeking (especially considering my schedule for the next few weeks). If perchance the reference is within one of the books of translated "Classical" texts on my book shelves ...... well, I will chip away at the task and report back if / when I luck upon it.
    As luck would have it, I located my source re the above. I had put tabs and an index in the two binders listing the contents of each. Anyway, the secondary source is Henri Hubert, "The Greatness and Decline of the Celts", Chapter IV, "Celts and Germans", Legan, Paul, Trench, Trubner & Co. 1934 (new edition published by Columbia University Press, 2003) - no page numbers in my copy. Hubert cites Mommsen, CCCLIX, ii, p. 172 as his reference for the statement. I am guessing that more can be found in Plutarch, "Life of Gaius Marius" in "Plutarch Lives", 1st ed., 11 volumes, translated by Bernadotte Perrin, London: W. Heinemann, 1914-1926. Good luck in tracking all this down, "if you should chose to accept the assignment".

    I should further note that Hubert states, "Marius's intelligence service, run by Sertorius, took the trouble to learn Celtic, and found that language sufficient" (again Mommsen). So questions still remain, e.g., what does "sufficient" imply here? Perhaps even Plutarch may not give a precise statement which would clear up your original question.
    Last edited by falconson1; 08-21-2019 at 07:23 PM.

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  10. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by falconson1 View Post
    Think I will retreat from this thread - for obvious reasons. The USA has been very good to this Canadian with an Appalachian - Ozark wife, and I take great exception to slights by foreign people against the country which has given me so many opportunities.
    Hello falconson,

    I wouldn’t let it bother you. No matter where you go there’s always one.
    Last edited by JMcB; 08-21-2019 at 07:31 PM.
    Known Paper Trail: 45.3% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian. Or: 87.5% British Isles, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian.
    LivingDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    FT Big Y: I1-Z140 branch I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 620 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 765 AD) >A13252/YSEQ (circa 1630 AD).

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  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by falconson1 View Post
    As luck would have it, I located my source re the above. I had put tabs and an index in the two binders listing the contents of each. Anyway, the secondary source is Henri Hubert, "The Greatness and Decline of the Celts", Chapter IV, "Celts and Germans", Legan, Paul, Trench, Trubner & Co. 1934 (new edition published by Columbia University Press, 2003) - no page numbers in my copy. Hubert cites Mommsen, CCCLIX, ii, p. 172 as his reference for the statement. I am guessing that more can be found in Plutarch, "Life of Gaius Marius" in "Plutarch Lives", 1st ed., 11 volumes, translated by Bernadotte Perrin, London: W. Heinemann, 1914-1926. Good luck in tracking all this down, "if you should chose to accept the assignment".

    I should further note that Hubert states, "Marius's intelligence service, run by Sertorius, took the trouble to learn Celtic, and found that language sufficient" (again Mommsen). So questions still remain, e.g., what does "sufficient" imply here? Perhaps even Plutarch may not give a precise statement which would clear up your original question.
    Yes, there are nearly always questions and gaps. I often wish Caesar and Tacitus could have added a few words from dialects and languages, among many other things. I appreciate your reply, and thanks for rekindling my interest in a people who struck such terror into Rome.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    Wales-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    North England-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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